The Divine Visitor conundrum (beware minor Orta spoilers)

Panzer Dragoon
1

My latest theory will both bewilder and entertain. I just finished writing it after I spent weeks thinking it through, and I’m confused myself!

Indeed, I don’t believe the Divine Visitor was just the player, but an ancient themself.

I remember when our so-so cryptic friend, Abadd, stated that Edge wasn’t the only human to visit Sestren in a topic at the old forums regarding the human DNA Azel managed to obtain from Sestren used to create Orta.

He then proceeded to choke on his own insane laughter. Well, now we know what he meant. Of course, we have come to expect this type of behavior from a servant of the ancients, formerly known as Team Andromeda, now Smilebit. :slight_smile:

2

You can’t disobey yourself, whether your change mind or not you are still doing what you want so you are not disobeying yourself…what would make an ancient change mind anyway when they are just in sestren space doing nothin? And don’t say it was one of the rebels because he wouldn’t end up in Sestren with them, only trusted ones would be part of this plan. And if someone changed mind wouldn’t Sestren know about it same as it knew about the Heresy Dragon and perhaps try to stop him from downloading himself onto Edge? How do we know “disobeying” isn’t a mistranslation as well and was supposed to be “opposing” even?
How do we know Sestren knew who the divine visitor really was? Maybe Sestren thought it’s the dragon as well and called him that…Just because it’s the ancients’ best creation or whatever it doesn’t mean it’s as good as God and knows everything how it really is since it’s still basing it’s knowledge on data it receives and that data can still be wrong.
Also you are saying Edge’s bones would have been crushed, how would the ancient’s mind data that was downloaded onto him fix that so he can use his body? You are saying no human body would survive 10000 years of hybernation because they are fragile but you then are saying the ancient still downloaded himself onto a dead man with crushed bones and a bullet hole through him?
You also say that the ancients were mere humans but then you are saying that a mere human (the player) would not be able to keep Edge alive or Edge would still be alive after the human host left him…that isn’t very consistent is it? How do you know Edge dies anyway? Do we see him die (ok he propably did, in Sestren with no way to get out, but that doesn’t mean he died because of the reason you are saying)?? You are even saying that after the divine visitor exits Edge’s body Edge can see him…why didn’t we see him fall down dead instead?
And what outside world are the ancients from? The Divine Visitor is supposed to be “from the outside world”… I do not believe it refers to Sestren Space if thats what you were going to reply…
Also about games having no relation to reality whatsoever, well, that’s up to the developers don’t you think?

3

I agree with most of your theory Geoffrey especially with the part where you say that the Ancients uploaded themselves into the Sestren system and about the Divine Visitor being an Ancient himself.

Actually I think he really was a rebel of the Ancient Age. The rebels were most likely Ancients themselves. One of the Ancients that built the towers could have had second thoughts with their plan and joined the rebels without the others knowing it.

Geoffrey I don’t think that the Heresy Dragon itself is the impurity. I believe it was activated/altered by the impurity, something similar to a virus. An impurity in the will of the Ancients? the Divine Visitor itself. He could have polluted the Ancients’ consciousness that resided in (the) Sestren.

About their bodies being frozen for thousand of years I have a different theory: In PD Orta there’s some interesting information in Sestren’s memory cells. I suppose that Gash said this(I haven’t played Saga so I’m not sure):

?We’re not really alive. We’re just being forced to live.?
?The Ancients’ spirits are making sure of that.?

That’s why I think that the Ancients wanted to download themselves into the humans that are still alive. Remember how the Heresy Dragon changed Lagi into a dragon? When the Ancients downloaded themselves into humans they could have changed them into something more evolved (back to their original form).

4

And after a few thousands of years he decides to act against it huh? What a lovely fella :stuck_out_tongue:
Anyone who was part of this plan would have proven he is all for it multiple times, it wasn’t something to leave at chance like that with just anyone who says he’s with them…

5

I must admit I didn’ read all theory but here are my opnions :

-The player IS the divine visitor.
-We might have disobeyed Sestren…

The events BEFORE Zwei are still shadowed and we don’t now what “bond” did the player form (or even if we didn’t or won’t there is still this possibility; story happens in the past 2; we don’t KNOW ALL of the PDD story!!) with Sestren at that time.

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Indeed, how can the player disobey the will of the ancients? They can’t because the player wasn’t under their control at any point in time. The Divine Visitor can only disobey them if it was one of them, or no longer following their orders (which is what disobey means). The Divine Visitor is inside Sestren while you enter your name. The facts speak for themselves.

The ancients were human beings within the Panzer world. I believe they converted their minds into computer data, and thus evolved themselves above “the common animal”. Drone servants would come in handy if this were the case, don’t you think? The ancients were creatures of “thought and intellect”, not manual labor. They evolved to the next level. Well temporarily.

The player couldn’t save Edge if the Divine Visitor was the player. How could the player bring Edge back from the brink of death? The player didn’t; the Divine Visitor did.

Remember this is all speculation mingled among the interpreted facts my mind loves to piece together. I’m forever seeing subtle connections.

Azel’s message says Orta was the answer to her fruitless searches: she never found Edge alive, and yet managed to acquire his gene data (as Abadd put it). How?

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[quote=“D-Unit”]I agree with most of your theory Geoffrey especially with the part where you say that the Ancients uploaded themselves into the Sestren system and about the Divine Visitor being an Ancient himself.

Actually I think he really was a rebel of the Ancient Age. The rebels were most likely Ancients themselves. One of the Ancients that built the towers could have had second thoughts with their plan and joined the rebels without the others knowing it.

Geoffrey I don’t think that the Heresy Dragon itself is the impurity. I believe it was activated/altered by the impurity, something similar to a virus. An impurity in the will of the Ancients? the Divine Visitor itself. He could have polluted the Ancients’ consciousness that resided in (the) Sestren.

About their bodies being frozen for thousand of years I have a different theory: In PD Orta there’s some interesting information in Sestren’s memory cells. I suppose that Gash said this(I haven’t played Saga so I’m not sure):

?We’re not really alive. We’re just being forced to live.?
?The Ancients’ spirits are making sure of that.?

That’s why I think that the Ancients wanted to download themselves into the humans that are still alive. Remember how the Heresy Dragon changed Lagi into a dragon? When the Ancients downloaded themselves into humans they could have changed them into something more evolved (back to their original form).[/quote]

Yeah I also believe the Impurity was a virus that precipitated the Heresy dragon’s activation. Whenever Sestren shouts out, “Impurity detected”, thoughout its memory orbs, it is referring to that virus. But I don’t believe the Divine Visitor was the said Impurity.

You’ve woven together some interesting ideas that I think you could easily write up into a theory. Your data stream idea certainly caught my attention as a familiar line of thought.

Here’s what Gash said about the Tower in PD Saga: “You heard it from Craymen? He claims the Tower will restore this world. If the Tower ran our lives, there would be no war. But we’re not really living. Just being kept alive”.

And later he says, “I’m sick of being kept alive by the ghosts of the ancient ones”, which is intriguing.

PD Orta either refined the translation into the closest Japanese approximation, or subtracted the English style and vernacular. Beats me; I’m no translater. However, I find Gash’s words more spontaneous in PD Saga.

The Seekers may have been aware of these ancient spirits or ghosts and gives us a reason as to why Gash would say such a thing. The Seekers would know a great deal indeed after researching the ancients for two whole centuries.

Of course, it also answers the question of why the Towers didn’t wipe out humanity completely; the ancients needed host bodies for their eventual return.

Nice idea. I didn’t think of that. :slight_smile:

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“I see you have returned. And this time with a human.”

that human sestren is referring to is the player, NOT edge!

but alexander has a point, edge faces towards us and says “So it was you who guided me?” how can he still be alive when we (the devine visitor IS definately the player, even Abadd would agree) are not within him?

IMHO storywise, the divine visitor thing is the cheesiest, most stupid gameplay idea i have ever seen in a game.
I hated the “enter you name” thing in Shining Force, and I think it is PDS single but greatest flaw.

9

I don’t think it is stupid or a flaw in anyway…

And Edge can be alive simply because he’s a different dimension…
This is stupid but it might be “magic” :stuck_out_tongue:

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[quote=“lordcraymen”]“I see you have returned. And this time with a human.”

that human sestren is referring to is the player, NOT edge!

but alexander has a point, edge faces towards us and says “So it was you who guided me?” how can he still be alive when we (the devine visitor IS definately the player, even Abadd would agree) are not within him?

IMHO storywise, the divine visitor thing is the cheesiest, most stupid gameplay idea i have ever seen in a game.
I hated the “enter you name” thing in Shining Force, and I think it is PDS single but greatest flaw.[/quote]

For all intents and purposes, Sestren could’ve been referring to Edge as the human he meant when Lagi and Edge confront it. In fact, this is what the player would believe until the Heresy dragon tells us he is not the Divine Visitor.

The Divine Visitor’s separation from Edge resulted in his death. Death just wasn’t immediate. Besides, Edge’s death is alluded by Azel herself.

I find the idea of the Divine Visitor being the player inconceivable, and so a more logical in-game alternative will easily grab my attention.

11

Ah yes I forgot to say that.I dissagree with KFC here when he says the human is the divine visitor…

I is NOT.

12

What about the outside world bit…I think it’s pretty importand to showing it was someone not from that world, meaning not an ancient or a seeker or an imperial or anythin…

13

An ancient could exist outside of the world, or in something considered outside. Take your pick of places from the available answers.

14

I really don’t think it refers to sestren space if thats what your getting at like I wrote in my first reply…

15

No, the outside can’t possibly be Sestren since that’ where they all were at that time…

That bit you are speaking of is spoken in Sestren right?
Soz I forgot somethings… :stuck_out_tongue:

16

Swapping the word exists with lives when the Heresy dragon says the Divine Visitor exists in the outside world makes sense of the meaning. The Divine Visitor does live in the outside world (the Sestren data stream); Edge does not. Even saying this inside Sestren makes no difference to its meaning because the DV still lives in this outside world. The DV is the only one in the position (the outside world) to put an end to the ancients.

Pressing the button shuts you down almost immediately.

17

You are not beeing coerent…
If the DV is the one from the outside world the outside worl as HAS to be another place (other than Sestren that is).

This ain’t poetry :stuck_out_tongue:

jk :slight_smile:

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ni offence intended, but this whole divine visitor thing is simply fanboy nitpick. it is a gameplay device to pull the player deeper into the story, it has really nothing to do with the panzer universe at all.

19

That would mean Edge survived the fall and didn’t die at the end.

Did the Heresy dragon deactivate itself once its mission was complete? And what of the ancients? Were their hibernation chambers turned off by the Impurity? Where did this virus that activated the Heresy dragon originate?

Man, so many unanswered questions.

20

No offense taken but quite frankly I don’t give a what! :stuck_out_tongue:
Besides I know that there is no great truth behind this…
But speculating is what makes me live as fars as beeing a PD fan is concerned …

Oh and the promise of a new chapter in the series 2!!! :sunglasses: