Sega needs to retire Sonic for at least five years and after that think about updating something like Sonic & Knuckles. Figure out what it was that people liked about Sonic’s older games. For one thing, I am pretty sure nobody liked them for their 3D (beyond special stages). I have no idea why they don’t try making a 2D game. Especially since Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush have gotten all sorts of praise. I think most gamers would still be willing to play 2D games.
If Sega keeps releasing crappy games like this (which I suspect they will) they are only going to ruin their mascot forever. People want a Sonic game about SONIC not a werewolf, not knights, not having to be playing as Tails and Knuckles at once, not even racing on hoverboards. They apparently almost made a “true” Sonic game with Sonic Unleashed but for no obvious reason decided to add beat’em up levels to it? Did anyone ever play a Sonic game because they wanted “beat 'em up action”!?!
Even in the “HD” they are not “Always the same” … some levels have 3 to 2, etc.
The level design between the two versions is totally different, an handled by different development teams.
Nor do they even run on the same graphics or physics engines.
Why you would think they would even be remotely similar is beyond me.
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Although it is worth noting that quite a few critics actually love the werehog sections, some even proclaim them to be better than the “hog” stages.
So nemoide, what is your opinion of Sonic Unleashed other than “crap”? I assume you have played it, based on the damnation you just gave it in your post…
I really like the game , and even the werehog levels are not that bad . Some of the skill and planing that’s gone into the massive levels , shows the Team have plenty of skill and the engines also shows tere’s ton of talent with in the Team , and this game is a massive step forward for ST imo . The Sonic levels are brilliant , but like with Halo II and MGS II people only want to play as the main character and I feel the same about Sonic .
My major problems other that the not so bad Werehog levels , is that the team as made Sonic use too many button presses , and its far too hard for the younger gamer imo, and this will hurt in sales.
I was not attempting to damn SU so much as Sega’s general treatment of Sonic games. I haven’t played it yet and from what I can tell it looks like it could be somewhat fun. I suppose it is unfair to call it crappy but from every review I have read it is “kind of okay” rather than anything stellar.
But there was a time when Sonic games were considered to be some of gaming’s greatest achievements. I can still play one of my old games and have tons of fun. They were something worthy of getting excited over. Not just “somewhat fun” or “kind of okay”. And Sega doesn’t even seem to care what happens to their mascot anymore to judge how now they are throwing him in for some Mideval fantasy adventure next which doesn’t fit with his character at all.
i think the magic word here is HAVING, sonic and knuckles didnt make you play them(neither did adventure 1) on the other hand they were all alot alike, only they had something to add a little to each. you wanted to search everywhere
[quote=“link1987”]
i think the magic word here is HAVING, sonic and knuckles didnt make you play them(neither did adventure 1) on the other hand they were all alot alike, only they had something to add a little to each. you wanted to search everywhere ^_^[/quote]
Well you did have to play as them in SA1 to complete the game, unlike Sonic and Knuckles
You also had to play as gulp…Amy.
Anyway, from the few of my friends who have played it SU has basically had the same things said about it:
A third of the whole game is brilliant, a lot of fun. That’s the daytime levels.
A third of the game is ok, but not as fun as the daytime levels. Werehog platform levels.
A third of the game is pretty boring. That’s all the combat.
Someone summed it up by saying that Sega knows what would make a really good Sonic game but feel they have to throw in a lot of extras as well to top it up or cover bases. I wonder how the game would’ve been reviewed if it was 3 times the amount of daytime levels.
I won’t be buying it but if someone lends it to me, I wouldn’t say no either
[quote=“Berserker”]
Someone summed it up by saying that Sega knows what would make a really good Sonic game but feel they have to throw in a lot of extras as well to top it up or cover bases. I wonder how the game would’ve been reviewed if it was 3 times the amount of daytime levels.
:P[/quote]
what i think is that they are either afraid to make a “short” game by having nothing but quick levels, or they are being lazy and dont want to put enough time/money to make a whole lot of good levels you run through.
and maybe i should have put it differently about having to play others. in sonic adventure you can play a whole run with nothing but sonic levels, kinda along the same lines that you would miss super metal sonic in sonic and knuckles if you didnt play through with knuckles.
maybe thats what they could have done, instead of mixing in the dark and light levels together, they could have had two separate storys(that way you could ignore the werehog)
link1987: I am slightly confused by your response. I was referring to Sonic Heroes how instead of playing as Sonic alone you have to switch between Tails and Knuckles many times within each (unfun) level. Although it can be known that I also did not like how Sonic Adventure 2 dictated which character you must play as in order to progress. (I did like getting to play as Tails and Knuckles in Sonic 2/3/&Knuckles also choices for character in SA1.)
RYB: That article is great. Also those linked to within that article. For serious.
[quote=“Nemoide”]link1987: I am slightly confused by your response. I was referring to Sonic Heroes how instead of playing as Sonic alone you have to switch between Tails and Knuckles many times within each (unfun) level. Although it can be known that I also did not like how Sonic Adventure 2 dictated which character you must play as in order to progress. (I did like getting to play as Tails and Knuckles in Sonic 2/3/&Knuckles also choices for character in SA1.)
RYB: That article is great. Also those linked to within that article. For serious.[/quote]
sorry bout that, i thought you were making some comment about the 3 characters in sonic 3 and knuckles(i missed the “at once” bit^_^)
Read the article that RYB linked and it made one good point, and a bunch of not so good points. The bit about Sonic-doesn’t-need-to-move-as-fast-as-he-does thing is spot on. He’s been slowly be surely moving faster and faster over the years, and it has the dual effect of requiring the developer to create bigger levels and it makes controlling him a lot more difficult (which is why you get portions of levels that play themselves).
Other than that, though, it’s all BS arguments. The fact that people used to play much shorter older games has nothing to do with the types of games people want to play now. Take a look at a game like Ghosts and Goblins. That was actually a fairly short game made long only by the fact that it was ridiculously difficult, and when you got to the end, you then had to play the game backwards. Not entirely fun by today’s standards. And with the price of games nowadays, people want a much longer experience. If you could beat a game in 3 hours and then had the option to replay levels, why wouldn’t you just rent it?
That being said, there’s an elegant solution to all those problems…
You wouldn’t rent it because it would use some DRM/Activation schemes that prevent used sales. Also because you’d want to buy and play the DLC coming to it. Har.
I think people are fine with shorter games nowadays, aren’t short replayable games what gets the most sales on Wii, aside from larger than life franchises like Mario? Obviously I don’t want a Sonic Mini Game Marathon, but a short but sweet experience with potential for extra DLC content would certainly be enticing. Heck, what if it also took a hint from LBP and allowed the creation of custom content too? And yes, I know LBP isn’t doing great in sales, but still, Sonic is a bigger deal I’d think. If the game was fun enough for the children, they’d get parents to buy it, and if it offered such quality and chance for extra custom and official content, the hardcores who hate current games would also jump ship. In theory.
he doesnt need to go that fast(i think sonic adventure was a fine speed), but i dont know about the whole"moving faster and faster" thing, i found sonic quite slow in secret of the rings, either that or he speed up at a PAINFUL rate.
i dont agree with the length argument, if they made sonic levels now the same way they did in the gen days, they would have multiple paths, and would not only make it alot easier to make more, but would add to replayabillity. and there are good selling short games today, bioshoch was short, stanglehold, god of war, FABLE, etc.
Al3x - And we know how well the DRM issue goes over with gamers
As for the shorter games on Wii thing, that’s a completely different style of game for a completely different crowd. The average consumer that is buying Carnival Games isn’t necessarily interested in buying a traditional Sonic game. Also, those games are primarily purchased for group play, whereas Sonic is primarily a solitary experience. Allowing players to create their own levels would be a way to increase content, but let’s face it - the vast majority of the levels would suck and sorting through that heap of stuff would turn off the vast majority of casual users. LBP had a huge amount of hype going in, but has faltered. Sure, the Sonic brand has more cache, but it can also be argued that LBP has a much more flexible system that allows for a wider variety of types of content, whereas Sonic’s content would be fairly limited.
link - Yes, Sonic was a little slower in Secret Rings (and you are right in that his acceleration was painfully slowed), and that’s a step in a good direction I think. But I’ve seen research that shows the average gamer says they want replay value, but something like 70% of games go unfinished, which means the “replay” goes completely unused. It’s the perceived value of the title that’s most important. A gamer hears that game A has 15 hours of intense gameplay, but hears Sonic only has 3. “But you can play Sonic over and over to get better scores!” will be heard as a cop out, unfortunately. Also, those games you all mentioned were all at least 10-20 hours long. We’re talking 3-4 hours here. There are XBLA games longer than that
I think all it takes is a good browsing system for custom levels, put the lifetime top ten, monthly top ten, weekly top ten and today’s featured levels in an easy to reach place, so that the casuals benefit from the browsing and rating of levels that the hardcores do.
LBP, I just think it’s not really fun at its core. Sure the levels you can create are so diverse, but I just didn’t find the platforming fun at all…
And yeah, that’s generally what I hear about LBP (which was my gut instinct when I saw the early demos), so I think that sort of thing would certainly help, but again, there’s only so much you can do with a side scrolling Sonic game. If you were able to control the speed at which he runs (i.e. have gates that he runs through that determine what speed he runs at), you could probably do some interesting things in the levels if you had a system as robust as LBP, though.
The one simple thing that would help with Sonic , is just to make a game where the player only plays as Sonic . Why that seems to beyond the Sonic Team I really don’t know .
Maybe the dire sales of Sonic U will ram this home to the Team, but I bet they’re already planing the next one , with the next new playable character . Its a shame as this game shows the team is a good team and could really make a great Sonic game if they really put their minds to it .
I’ll also love to see the Team remake Sonic Adv with the new engine , maybe they’ll see what helps makes a great Sonic 3D game in the processes
