I’ve been reading through the backlog of threads in Seekers’ Stronghold, I really want to avoid directly rehashing too much debate. This is one of the few straighforward questions that occured to me that I haven’t seen asked in any form yet. (only page 11 so far though!)
Basically I’m just curious about how un-momentous crossing the threshold to Sestren space seems in contrast to the big production it was in Azel/Saga. Rather than make a big production myself of the question, I’ll just throw out various things that crossed my mind.
Sestren Exis was maintaining control over the gates from the “inside” and now that it’s destroyed there’s open entrances just kinda lying around in places.
The actual personal realm of Sestren Exis was a much deeper, perhaps ‘fortified’ place and took more power to breach.
The Ruin Abadd led Orta to was closer to the center of the network, it’s gateway perhaps even unique.
This situation is different because Orta is a drone therefore already partially syncronised to the Sestren Space unlike Edge. One would think there’s a reason the Dragon could escape Sestren yet Edge couldn’t after all. Or to extend that idea more radically…
…Orta and Abadd, being drones, are not actually physically translated into Sestren for Ep. 7 but merely interfacing. I may be wrong but I don’t believe the inference that she “teleports” to the Cradle at the end is conclusive. The Cradle is quite possibly close to the same location, if not even directly linked in some way.
I think there’s a couple I’m forgetting but I’m sure others can think of more anyway. So… PLEASE do!
I think that the answer is fairly straightforward - Azel translating Edge into Sestren-space was just as “un-momentous” as Abadd imparting the same to Orta.
In Saga, all that transpires is that Azel activates a portal, and Edge flies through it. That’s it, and it’s fundamentally no different to Orta! Any sense of a “big production” actually belongs to unrelated subjects - the sense of climax after you’d just fought your way through the Tower floor by bloody floor, anticipation because THIS IS THE FINAL BOSS and a portentous air because Azel self-destructed the Tower after Edge and Lagi had flown through.
I need to make that more clear then Robert thank you. I’m talking about the cinema you see when Azel opens the gateway to Sestren. It shows the entire Tower (of Uru) powering up and radically changing shape, even sort of “stretching” into the other dimension. It struck me as rather momentous anyway.
I only thought about this because of the discussions regarding whether the ruin Abadd takes Orta to might be a Tower, and that Abadd may have tricked Orta into opening the gateway if he couldn’t himself. The fact that this entrance is represented so differently would suggest that either this gateway was already powered up, or that it’s simply not a directly equivalent location or circumstance.
To answer your main question, I think the accepted explantion for why Orta gets into Sestren so easily is because the network identifies the dragon she’s riding, and opens the gateway automatically for it as it approaches. If you remember, the voice of the system says this right at the end of Episode 6:
“Authentication in progress…”
“Gene base code 12 confirmed.
Welcome home, master.”
“Data Transformation Gateway initialized.”
“Gene base code 12” is obscurely confirmed to be the dragon’s genetic code in one of the sub-scenarios in Pandora’s Box. Why the system thinks of the dragon as its “master” is never explained in depth of course, but as the dragon-program entity seemed to assume control of the Sestren network at the end of PDS (“The will of the ancients… It is now with me…” etc), it seems likely that it’s meant to have left the network in a state to accept the dragon, or something along those lines…
[quote=“Heretic Agnostic”]Or to extend that idea more radically…
…Orta and Abadd, being drones, are not actually physically translated into Sestren for Ep. 7 but merely interfacing. I may be wrong but I don’t believe the inference that she “teleports” to the Cradle at the end is conclusive. The Cradle is quite possibly close to the same location, if not even directly linked in some way. [/quote]
I know there’s not a huge amount of stuff to base conclusions on, but I’m fairly sure that Orta and the dragon (and Abadd) are meant to be fully uploaded and moved into Sestren for Episode 7. The most important point I can think of is that we see her and the dragon physically disappear into the swirling light at the end of Episode 6, at least as far as I can remember (it’s been a while since I’ve played the game itself, so sorry if that’s actually wrong!). The language used in the script also seems to suggest a physical movement rather than just a mental connection; the narration between Episodes 6 and 7 says that:
Orta was sent beyond the boundaries
of the mortal world,
into the circuits of Sestren.
For the point about the Sestren system teleporting or transporting Orta to the Cradle, I’d say that again it just sounds like a physical movement is implied by the script; the system “forwards” Orta to block 2-8-9 (some kind of technical term for the Cradle):
“Master voice confirmed.
Now forwarding to block 2-8-9.”
I think this point’s been discussed a bit in the past, and while I thought exactly what you’ve said there when I first played the game (that the transition to Sestren was pretty impressive in PDS), others have pointed out that it’s not necessarily the case. From what we know, the opening of the gateway to Sestren and the destuction of the Tower could be unrelated, seperate events - Azel did want to destroy the Tower after all, and the English script at least implies that she had a choice in whether to destroy it or not, and that destroying it involved her doing something extra after the gateway had been used:
Azel, what about you!?
I must stay here.
There is much to do…
What do you mean?
When you leave for Sestren,
I will destroy this Tower.
Sestren will not be able to escape.
I won’t let you.
Azel, what will happen to you?
I am… the only one…
that can destroy the Tower.
Hmm, I guess the idea that the Tower’s transformation was only the process of it’s destruction had never even entered my mind. And to be honest it still seems entirely implausible to me, especially as the very effect looks like it’s halfway translating itself into Sestren-space.
However if that is actually a prevailing belief then I suppose no one will find any significance in this topic…
I don’t see how that’s necessarily so, but I suppose that’s a result of aesthetic opinion more than anything else.
Assuming that you’re correct, though, perhaps an incomplete Sestren-shift is actaully part of the self-destruction sequence. Imagine that a rent in the integrity of the cosmos unravelled space-time within your body, greedily sucked in the greater part of your intestines like spaghetti bolognaise, only for it then to be spat back out in all variety of incomprehensible physics-raping ways whilst your liver, stomach, and a bit of your right lunf all exist in two dimensions simultaeneously. Chances are you wouldn’t feel very hale and hearty, to state it mildly!
What can I say, I’m of the* if it looks like a duck then it’s a duck* school of thought. We have other examples of a Tower being destroyed that looked relatively simply just like a Tower being destroyed. shrug
I know what you mean, and as I said that was the impression I got too when I first played the game. Looking at it from this angle though, Azel may have had to destory the Tower of Uru in a completely different way to how the dragon destroyed the first two Towers; unless the Ancients left a convenient self-destruct system in the Tower that a Drone could activate, Azel may have had to improvise and “overload” the Tower in some way in order to make it destroy itself, which could explain the strange visual effect in PDS (that you and I both though was meant to be the portal to Sestren).
I guess what it probably comes down to is whether or not Azel had a choice about destroying the Tower in the original Japanese script, or if that was just something that was added in translation. (I do like Robert’s idea that she could have destroyed the Tower by letting it partially suck itself through into Sestren, though.)
I can’t say as it’s a pressing matter in my mind, and hardly lacking in company among all the other superficial discrepancies to be found. The only reason I even feel motivated to argue about it is that it’s a fairly arbitrary proposition to be basing other arguments on.
As I mentioned it only intruded on my consciousness in relation to the other discussions about the gateway itself. IF it was already powered-up it would go against Abadd hitching a ride from the Dragon into Sestren. IF it did not require the same kind of elaborate material transformation it would go against the Ruin being a Tower.
Not that those are especially pressing matters either. shrug
I guess what it probably comes down to is whether or not Azel had a choice about destroying the Tower in the original Japanese script, or if that was just something that was added in translation. (I do like Robert’s idea that she could have destroyed the Tower by letting it partially suck itself through into Sestren, though.)[/quote]
You know, I really thought that last scene between Edge and Azel was so touching, until I was informed that it was a ****ing edit for the West. I don’t know why, but it lost every part of it’s appeal afterwards. Maybe something to do with the Stolar factor.
Arcie, I only found out about that a couple weeks ago when I started reading stuff on TWOTA. After the initial moment of shock wore off it didn’t make too massive a difference to me.
Consider this, even if Azel uses the words “I love you”, and a reminder it’s something Edge never even hears, she’s still a drone wrestling with a concept she can’t possibly understand. Azel was an emotional infant, and regardless of any other portrayals of Craymen being important to her, Edge still seems clearly the primary recipient and vehicle of her awakening on that level.
Craymen, Atolm and Edge may share a role of catalyst, but circumstantially speaking Edge is the only one around reciprocating any feeling as she begins to acknowledge her own.
I guess for me it’s like this, as I understand the more accurate translation has her drifting off on the word “I”, and just in regards that specific moment; Whether Azel struggles to say words she doesn’t fully comprehend, or is struggling to understand words she can’t say… the illustration remains essentially umblemished in context.
Even though Azel didn’t confess her love for Edge in the Japanese version of Panzer Dragoon Saga, she did at least care enough to risk her life in the desert to search for him at the end of the game. Perhaps, this was just because Edge was the closest person left to her… but the writer(s) could have intended it to be more than that as well.