Rumour: Next Xbox to be released in late 2012

Other Games
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I’ll go into two of the games you mentioned Team Andromeda. Mass Effect 2 and Red Dead Redemption.

Now, I haven’t finished Red Dead Redemption yet, but I’ve played enough of it to have find gripes with the story telling. Much of the story seems to be consist of following people around, doing missions for them. For example, Nigel West Dickens will get you to run some errand… and then another errand… and then another. Amusingly, it’s even emphasised in the game with Marsden’s despair at being runned around. This is what I would call “filler”. These are the kind of story elements that would be left on the cutting room floor of a film.

Another example is Mass Effect 2. Now, overall I enjoyed Mass Effect 2. But the character quests were extremely repetitive. For every character in your crew there is a personal quest that you go on win their trust. You’re faced with a series of choices at the end, and you must to choose whether to allow your champion kill their opponent or not. It’s the same formula for each side story. Why bother to have so many similar side stories if they’re just going to be copies of one another? The answer is that systematic gameplay elements (and game length) come first, and the story is layered on top to fit that system. The result is that much of the story does not feel organic.

I agree that some are differences between games and films. Games must have some degree of repetitiveness (although the story doesn’t need to). My point is that with films, everything is designed together as a cohesive whole. Acting, writing, music… all these things are important, and none are an afterthought because some other feature is more important. The result is a story that gives everything in the film purpose. The same could be true for story-driven games if more emphasis was put on integrating story with the other game elements from the start.

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Yeah but that’s a game issue .

Again that’s not a story issue but a game issue .

Really depends on what film you are watching. I like Spiderman III but parts in that film just weren’t needed at all , a lot of films will also feature filler parts , but you know no-ones goes into watching the likes of Rambo, Rocky, Terminator expecting Oscar winning scripts and storylines .

So why you expect the same with games I do not know .

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The issues I mentioned in Red Dead Redemption and Mass Effect 2 are story issues, in so far as they involve dialogue and give purpose to the missions. Missions, I shall add, that are tied closely with the main quest. The repetition is not just in the gameplay - it is in the way the scenarios are set up in a similar fashion to one another. Story isn’t just about dialogue. Its also about how the scenarios are set up in relation to the whole, either through dialogue or less explicit story telling mechanisms. Also, when a game has a story (I agree that not all games need a story) then I see the story and game as a single feature, intertwining and complementing one another.

With a film, the length is shorter, so any filler is less noticeable. If games are going to be lengthy, they should have engaging stories the whole way through, at least for the main quest. Panzer Dragoon Saga did this well; there was very little filler in comparison to many of today’s games. Stories like that, but with more interactivity instead of FMVs, would be beneficial for games.

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But are you really being fair here . How many spaghetti westerns have a deep meaning full story and and Oscar winning scripts ? . So I don’t really get why you expecting so much more for Red dead .
How many SC-Fi films again have a Oscar winning script and storyline ? Not that many really, so I don’t get why you expect Mass Effect to be much better

I don’t think that’s really being fair or practical tbh. There was quite a lot of moments in Lord Of The Rings that I could have done with out , there were parts in the Likes of Spiderman series that I could have done with out, they were still good films and I didn’t really go into them expecting Oscar wining scripts

I think most games use very little FMV these days . SAGA got the length spot on , I’ve always said 20 hrs is more than enough for any game . I loved Skies of Arcadia but it went on for far too long . It’s a shame more didn’t play galleon- That game had a great script and nice storyline for a adventure game

You really need to play Heavy Rain mate, I think you’ll be impressed and suprised with it’s storyline and final outcome, Deadly Premonition is another one too .

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Maybe because it can be? It has to be done in a way that doesn’t lose anyone’s attention, that’s all.

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[quote=“peregrine sprout”]mgs4 ? I completely love it :smiley: it was the first game since years that I played through several times in a row.

hl2 was the miserable fail both storywise and gameplaywise

Of course you dont understand why I l ike something or not, thats why I wrote the lines, that personal taste is irrational for others.

Maybe thats another point of hl2, I dont like that “unfinished” feeling.
[/quote]

Yes, what one likes are taste. I just think the Japanese tastes, and as an extension their games, are out of touch. I just came back from living in Japan for a year a little over a year now. They are completely clueless when it comes to news and events outside of Japan. Most Japanese have no idea what is happening in Asia much less anywhere else in the world. It really shows in their games. MGS is like a string of 80’s action cliche. They don’t have the sophistication necessary to succeed outside of Japan (who I think is stuck in the 80’s). What is so great about Half Life, even with the sci-fi storyline is that you can actually believe in the characters. You can feel their pain. The game tells the story while you participate in the world. In MGS you play a game and the story is added in through cut-scenes and video completely taking you out of the game. This isn’t to say the Japanese can’t make a great game, ie. Panzer Dragoon. I just see way to many Metal Gears and Resident Evils coming from Japan. They just don’t have the depth of a game like Half Life, Mass Effect, The Elder Scrolls, etc to appeal to the masses. The bar has been raised and MGS was left behind years ago.

As for HL not being finished, I have to admit the rumors of HL3 due to the Valve employee wearing a HL3 T-Shirt in public have me giddy as a Japanese schoolgirl.

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@ frelled

mgs4 sold unlike any exclusive ps3 title at its time and sold over 5 million units. skyrim sold 7 million units so far, but is released on 3 platforms. Sounds like both did pretty well if you ask me ?

Hm maybe its 80s clichee, I dont know, maybe I am stuck in the 80s lol.
Looking at the market though, many cheesy stuff from my youth seems fashionable now, it makes me twitch in pain to see broad shoulderpads in some musicvideos appear again lol. I loved broad shoulderpads in guardian heroes though… taste is irrelevant on a broad scale unless the income of the product is so negative it crushes a studio.

Unfortunately, many suitwearing decissionmakers now closed a lot of studios this year even it made profit, because they aim for that BIG market only, even it is in the plus… is it an argument for the quality to be popular ?

I love nihei comics and stuff from enki bilal. They dont sell too well and dont get much attention from the bigshots, but you can bet they have an everlasting fanbase. Should they stop and adapt to the modern trend ?

Please not.

For that example, best selling games have been since decades stuff like fifa, nhl… yawn. sims ? yawn. :smiley:

To each his own…

Trends come and go, there will always be a generation or a group of people seeking exactly that which is not in the present style of time. heck there is an entire industry serving the needs of such people and dl sections for xbox and ps profit from people demanding old jewels back at their desk, heck if I would have the money I would purchase an xbox just to download guardian heroes again…

You state it as a fact that your favourite games have these psychological effects of believability and really , but these are not facts unless you have a statistic or real proof, otherwise its really just your personal preference , which is as important or relevant as the taste of us all.

For frells sake , if you love farscape , that series would be darn 90s, and I would love to see more of it if you get the point . Others might vomit and demand immediate mass effect antidote (though I think its pretty much 90s with some recent style update but heck , my point is paradox as it is).

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Those films are 2 to 3 hours, whereas Red Dead Redemption and Mass Effect 2 are spread over much longer. So any story repetition is much more noticeable. There’s no need for so much repetition, especially when the quest stories are set out in the same format over and over. Cutting the filler or making it less repetitive would be a huge step forward for game stories.

Yeah. For me it wasn’t the story that went on too long in Skies, but the gameplay. Far too many random battles. But exploring the world map was rewarding, and the story itself remained interesting most of the way through. The story didn’t feel too repetitive, other than the “find all the crystals” part.

I have played a few hours of Heavy Rain on a friend’s PS3 and was very impressed. It’s on my list for an evidential PS3 purchase. I will check out Deadly Premonition; thanks for the recommendation.

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[quote=“peregrine sprout”]
You state it as a fact that your favourite games have these psychological effects of believability and really , but these are not facts unless you have a statistic or real proof, otherwise its really just your personal preference , which is as important or relevant as the taste of us all.

For frells sake , if you love farscape , that series would be darn 90s, and I would love to see more of it if you get the point . Others might vomit and demand immediate mass effect antidote (though I think its pretty much 90s with some recent style update but heck , my point is paradox as it is).[/quote]

I came to the conclusion that HL creates realistic emotions based on personal analysis and equation to people I know in real life.

The real reason I even posted though was that your comment:

Of course a game doesn’t have to cater to just my own personal tastes. I think variety is great. I just didn’t like that you related your own personal opinion as fact by saying HL2 was a miserable fail, especially in relation to the story. I think that sales of HL and HL2 pretty much speak for themselves. Your opinion is of course your opinion. You don’t like HL and that is fine. But to say that HL2 was a miserable fail is pretty inflammatory. I love Farscape. Even I can see its flaws. MGS games are enjoyed by many and I can understand that. I don’t like the characters or lack of solid gameplay motivations myself. I wouldn’t call it a miserable fail though.

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That is my point and you can’t really compare games to films . There’s going to be more repetition in games, because no-one would stand for a ?50 game only lasting for an Hour and Hour and where in that time you played and fished the game and saw everything it had to offer

That is my trouble with almost every RPG made since the 16 bit age.

You’ll be shocked at the end of Heavy Rain and I’m mean really shocked it will leave you gob smacked . DP isn’t for everyone but its had a really nice story and a great and funny script (thought I don’t think it was 100% meant on the developers part)

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Games could be the price of films, or released in episodes like a TV series. It’s a matter looking at new price models (which are changing, thankfully, due to digital distribution).

A game could be longer than a film with a similar length story because some of the length in a game is gameplay related, not story related. Games that are 10 hours or so have relatively compact stories (Halo, for example) and these sell well because they pack in lots of multiplayer to add value. You could take out the multiplayer and drop the price to half. If several episodes were made using the same engine the money could be made back that way. For example, you could have the story of Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3 as three episodes released closer together, they could use the same tech to save on costs, but make them 10 hours instead of 30 hours each.

I look forward to it. :anjou_happy:

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I’ve always said games should be the price of DVD and that the price of games is the real barrier to gaming not the controls.

[quote]I look forward to it.
[/quote]

And I look forward to reading what you think of it :slight_smile: