Racism in England

[drunkensailor]

[quote=“Kimimi”]

[quote=“drunkensailor”]
black and north african immigrants on the other hand are a total pain in the ass, they steel like it’s their instinct here. also because they don’t get their hands cut off when they steel like they get when they steal in their own country’s, certain races need tougher disciplinary sentences than others when they live in a western country with western materialistic values.[/quote]

For starters, it’s steal.

Secondly, it’s racism in the extreme to suggest that certain people should recieve tougher sentences based entirely on the colour of their skin - we’re meant to be better than all that, and I like to think that the majority of people are.
All this talk about North Africans stealing almost on impulse because they won’t get their hands cut off sounds like you got your multicultural information from some 70’s Sinbad film.[/quote]

not based on the color of their skin but based on their race, it has nothing to do with skin color, wheter africans would have been be white or not there’s no denying in that they are more criminal. the statistics for a start here in the netherlands don’t lie, 99% of all streetcriminality is being conducted by north africans and black people, the prisons are 87% crowded by these same groeps. In morocco you cna leave ur wallet on the roof of your car and it won’t get stolen because of social control from neighbourhood and mostly because they get the shit beaten out of them in those psisons they have there where u lay in ur own urine for weeks. those things appearantly work for them so why not do that here. I know it’s discriminating too give certain people different punishmens but I think we need to stop the “we are all equal” bullshit because we are not in the slightest equal. there’s no animal as different from each other then the human being. while clearly we all accept races when it comes to dogs and the differences for instance between a pit bull and a maltean lion, we have been manipulated to NEVER even think about this when it comes to humans while it is the only way to understand each other and each others behavior. I’t’s the same reason why africa is so poor despite billions of dollars a year given to them, a country like south korea has grown froma 3rd world country to a rich developped country in less then 50 years. how do you explain that then?? or india, or the incredible growth of china and russia the last few years. While in africa nothing develops except aids. or zimbabwe which was inhabited by 60,000 white people and was a well developped country until they were driven away and within 4 weeks there was a hunger and food shortage and now it is one of the poorest country’s in the world. Just open you eyes

[Ehndow]

Drukensailor : criminality in cities has to do with social segregation.99% of criminals tend to come from poor environments.So it’s not like the black communitty in Holland is generally criminal (im just comment your words,these aren’t mine)…might be that 99% of black people in Holland live in porr environments.

A good example is Lisbon : streetcriminality IS often more than not done by black people.But if you’re in my city, where you don’t have as much black people (way way ways less) you have other people as criminals…and what do they all have in common : they were born in some ghetto.(ghetto is really not the term to use here since the segregation is not as big as you might imagine…it’s not like in the US anyways)

I think it’s pretty much in any human beeing’s blood to start acting wrong in certain scenarios.One of them beeing having to live an often shitty live separated from all the “good life” out there…

Or maybe that last segmented just sounded a bit stupid…anyways…

[drunkensailor]

and why do you think it is that they live in poor environments?? that is such a bullshit arguement, have you ever been to france?? to the countryside?? have you sene the poverty there amongst white famers?? do you think those farmers were rioting in france 1 yera agho to get more money cuz they are unemployed?? no!

environment has nothing to do with it. the chinese came to the us and were incredibly poor, right now they have worked themselves up something black people and latino’s can never achieve in the western world. we must accept that and face it and not constantly calling everyone a racist who opens his eyes to what is happening in the multicultural western world

[Solo_Wing]

I know it’s discriminating too give certain people different punishmens but I think we need to stop the “we are all equal” bullshit because we are not in the slightest equal. there’s no animal as different from each other then the human being. while clearly we all accept races when it comes to dogs and the differences for instance between a pit bull and a maltean lion, we have been manipulated to NEVER even think about this when it comes to humans while it is the only way to understand each other and each others behavior.

I think this has less to do with where someone is from or what race they are, and more to where they are brought up. Different cultures raise humans to become different kinds of people, this is true, but I think it’s unfair to not treat people equally based on how they are brought up. Was it their choice to be raised in a tougher culture? Especially in poorer countries, a lot of people do not have any choice. However, if they have chosen to move to a different country, it’s likely that they did so because they liked that country’s culture and laws better. Should we deny those people of being treated the same way as us, when there really isn’t a great deal of difference between us?

For your comparison with different types of dogs - well, human beings very different creatures. For a start, anyone who has the ability to read or talk clearly has a much greater chance of understanding reason than a dog.

[Ehndow]

[quote=“drunkensailor”]and why do you think it is that they live in poor environments?? that is such a bullshit arguement, have you ever been to france?? to the countryside?? have you sene the poverty there amongst white famers?? do you think those farmers were rioting in france 1 yera agho to get more money cuz they are unemployed?? no!

[/quote]

Don’t get worked up ok?!I don’t mean any poor envrionment.I mean a poor environment within a big city where every once else has at least a medium level of life.It’s not necesserilly the lack of money …it’s the social gap.Saying the riots in France has anything to do with unemployment is silly btw.

PS:I have been to france both countryside and big cities.And I know both the poor and not poor realities very well.My grandparents were poor farmers themselves.But that’s beyond the point…

[Geoffrey]

Now, it may be racist to suggest that black people are more predisposed to crime, but to not acknowledge statistics can be just as dangerous.

One of the reasons why I avoid inner London nowadays is because of muggers who are almost always young black men. Police statistics have proven this time and time again, and it doesn’t hit home until someone you know has been effected by it like my best friend who was mugged once by three young black men. My father has been unsuccessfully mugged many times by the same stereotype, and let’s just say it’s not a good idea to ply that kind of trade on an ex soldier.

It’s a culture of violence that people promote which is to blame. Black people like Martin Luther King (a Christian) prove that they aren’t naturally predisposed to commit more crime. It’s a culture of crime that needs to be acknowledged and tackled. But people refuse to acknowledge it lest they be seen as “racist”.

Come on, that’s just ludicrous. Deal with the problem. Don’t sweep it under a rug.

This is Abadd’s cue to disagree with me…

[Al3xand3r]

Ever thought of it as a cycle? People move to another country to have a better life, where they aren’t exactly welcome with how racist people can be, thus they end up in a life of crime since they never really got the chance to do anything else. And because of that, the opinion of people toward them isn’t getting any better since they seem them as criminals thus the next generations keep doing the same thing over and over.

You spoke about the culture of crime. They live in your country now and as you said they are mostly young men who do that so they were probably born there. Shouldn’t your country teach those young people a different culture?

[UrbanReflex]

People have to take responsibility for their own actions. You can blame whatever you like, but at the end of the day people should have the sense to not get involved in anything negative.

[The_Ancient]

Use of statistics is one of the most common, and effective, ways of abusing a grain of truth to sell lies. There is no end to the possiblities, you can pick and choose exactly which statistics you want to “prove” anything you may want. Statistics are an essential tool for furthering knowledge in all areas but if they are being used for anything other than pointing us towards the next question to ask then they are virtually always being used to further a personal and entirely unscientific agenda.

while clearly we all accept races when it comes to dogs and the differences for instance between a pit bull and a maltean lion,

I am not familiar with the maltean lion, it is a dog then? It’s interesting because we had a similar thread already discussing the nature vs nurture issue in regard to breeds of dogs, and if you choose to use that as an example then you argue against yourself. If anything the behavior of pets reinforces the truth of environment and stimulus being the primary influences on social behavior. Innate personality is one thing, but extreme actions and reactions such as violence or other criminal behavior must have some equally compelling societal trigger assuming the being is chemically and developmentally “normal”.

But you also bring to focus the innate falacy of any and every discussion of “racism”, there is only one human race. We are of many different breeds but only a single race. And scientifically, genetically, we are all more similar to each other than 2 examples from nearly any other race of creature on this planet would be.

[Kimimi]

Use of statistics is one of the most common, and effective, ways of abusing a grain of truth to sell lies. There is no end to the possiblities, you can pick and choose exactly which statistics you want to “prove” anything you may want.

I have a favourite quote, which runs something like this -

“64.8% of statistics are made up on the spot.”

I agree with you in part Geoffrey; if the majority of petty crime is being carried out by a particular racial group then ignoring it in the name of “equality” is ludicrous.
If there are patterns to criminal behaviour though, why is this? Are certain ethnic groups not treated the same? Are they not given the same housing and job opportunities? It is always the individuals choice to become involved in crime, but we also need to aknowledge the chain of events that is leading them to do this. A lot of “immigrants” living in the UK today are what, 3rd/4th generation residents now? So they are born and raised in the same society to you and I - so what is wrong with our society?

[Bluefoot]

environment has nothing to do with it. the chinese came to the us and were incredibly poor, right now they have worked themselves up something black people and latino’s can never achieve in the western world. we must accept that and face it and not constantly calling everyone a racist who opens his eyes to what is happening in the multicultural western world

That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. Do you think that all Latinos and all black people are poor? Do you think that all people of Chinese descent are rich? If you think that there’s some inherent difference between the brain of a black person and the brain of an asian person, or a white person, that makes them somehow less likely to achieve as much, I can come up with about a million counterexamples before you can say “racist.” Environment has everything to do with it. If you are born poor, you’re far more likely to stay poor than someone who was born rich. If you’re born into a culture in which violence is acceptable, you’re more likely to commit acts of violence. That’s the way it is.

Here’s a statistic for you:

About 85% of all genetic variation can, on average, be found within any local population, be they Swedes, Kikuyu, or Hmong. About 94% can be found within any continental population, consistent with what the Rosenberg Science study found. In fact, there are no characteristics, no traits, not even one gene that turns up in all members of one so-called race yet is absent from others.

source: newsreel.org/guides/race/whatdiff.htm

This sort of willful ignorance is utterly inexcusable. Get off my Internet.

PS

[quote=“drunkensailor”]

It’s pretty bad everywhere you go, nowadays. Oh, and if you’re an American entering China or Taiwan, you’ll pretty much get the same treatment, regardless of your race. Americans are pretty much despised, worldwide.

that is very much the truth yes. say your an american anywhere in europa, asia or africa and you get attacked alot, verbally of physiclaly sometimes[/quote]

I live in the U.S. Every single person I know who has traveled abroad has reported the exact opposite.

[Abadd]

Geoffrey - I agree with parts, disagree with others. I find it wiser to avoid anyone who looks dangerous, regardless of whether or not they are white, black, whatever. In the US, crime rate amongst blacks tends to be higher than whites, for example, but again, like you said, that is a cultural issue (not a black culture issue, but a socio-economic cultural issue). The fact of the matter is that there is also a higher percentage of blacks in the lower income brackets than whites, and it is generally poverty that drives people towards crime, so it’s natural to see that also reflected in the crime rates.

Kadamose - I just got back from China (Shanghai, to be specific) and did not experience anything in the way of racism. In fact, aside from the bout of food poisoning and the ridiculously hot weather, I had an extremely pleasant time. It all depends on the person and how they present themselves. Come across as an arrogant American, and yeah, you’ll get some flak. But be humble, try to speak the language to the best of your ability, and go with the flow, and you’ll find that most people of the world are extremely friendly.

Bluefoot - You’re fighting the good fight, but it’s a useless fight =\

[Goonboy_Panzer]

[quote=“drunkensailor”]and why do you think it is that they live in poor environments?? that is such a bullshit arguement, have you ever been to france?? to the countryside?? have you sene the poverty there amongst white famers?? do you think those farmers were rioting in france 1 yera agho to get more money cuz they are unemployed?? no!

environment has nothing to do with it. the chinese came to the us and were incredibly poor, right now they have worked themselves up something black people and latino’s can never achieve in the western world. we must accept that and face it and not constantly calling everyone a racist who opens his eyes to what is happening in the multicultural western world[/quote]

Ok let’s put this to you fellow caucasian. If Blacks and latinos are predisposed to be natural theives than whites in that same logic are predisposed to violent crime like rape and murder. And before you argue that they don’t let’s remind people that the satistics show that white males are more likely to be involved in a act of violence like murder than anyone else in the western world. Now does that mean all white guys are violent criminals? No but we all know that from interacting socially with each other and TV. Yet if your a member of a minority group and certain people from that group do bad things,everyone else tends to remember that rather than any good things they do. Especially if you don’t have that much interaction with that group and especially if Tv shows and films show these groups in a non favourable light.

And lets get one thing clear if you know any poor/working class chinese people you would know that half of them are into a lot of dodgy things(for various reasons usually because of a debt owed) but unlike the other minority groups they don’t advertise that fact since they don’t bring attention to themselves all the time like blacks and latinos do.

[quote=“drunkensailor”]

Well the place that spawned Hitler and Mossolini isn’t going to eradicate racisim within 50 years. The whole Serbian war was racially motivated and that was twelve yearsago so racisim in the UK doesn’t suprise me one bit.

I think many people of you don’t understand the difference between nationalism and racism, serbia’s war was motivated by nationalism not by racism at all. the same nationalism btw which is so much hailed in the us and called patriotism or whatever, despite the fact that the us has pretty much no cultural history compared to the old world, nationalism is running very high in east europe due to the fact that immigrants are going there now due to bigger economical growth there, people down there who ahven’t completely been brainwashed by multicultural-propaganda are simply saying no to immigrants and the violent excesses are of course being shown on tv to convince peo9ple how violent racist europeans or russians are[/quote]

I dunno what planet your from but the serbian war was racially motivated masked as nationalisim. So was the nationalisim of late 1930’s germany when getting rid of anyone that wasn’t deemed german enough(mainly jews) was in the call for nationalisim. And since the words ethnic cleansing was brandished about during the serbian war and the evidence of the people being killed …well what would you call it?

[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]Now, it may be racist to suggest that black people are more predisposed to crime, but to not acknowledge statistics can be just as dangerous.

One of the reasons why I avoid inner London nowadays is because of muggers who are almost always young black men. Police statistics have proven this time and time again, and it doesn’t hit home until someone you know has been effected by it like my best friend who was mugged once by three young black men. My father has been unsuccessfully mugged many times by the same stereotype, and let’s just say it’s not a good idea to ply that kind of trade on an ex soldier.

It’s a culture of violence that people promote which is to blame. Black people like Martin Luther King (a Christian) prove that they aren’t naturally predisposed to commit more crime. It’s a culture of crime that needs to be acknowledged and tackled. But people refuse to acknowledge it lest they be seen as “racist”.

Come on, that’s just ludicrous. Deal with the problem. Don’t sweep it under a rug.

This is Abadd’s cue to disagree with me… :)[/quote]

I have to agree. This is actually a western black thing. You go to america and its the same type of self destructive thing that on a larger scale. half these young muggers are influenced by rap music and that type of culture. The culture of not working for what you want and the victim culture. These guys think the world owe them a living and have used the fact that they are black and not getting an equal chance in society as a valid reason for doing it. Yet if you meet blacks from other countries they tend to be hardworking and all have jobs. They usually live in the same deprived areas yet they don’t go out on the rob,why?

When people stop romanticising crime by saying they do it because they are poor instead of seeing them as the scum oppourtunists that they really are maybe society can move on a bit. I mean were not talking about robin hood here were talking about people stealing Ipods ,trainers so they can keep for themselves and money so they can buy booze and drugs. Not exactly feeding the family is it?

[Jimkemon]

Find this chav and ask him to be the best man at a wedding (one that won’t be happening) when he’s still trying to work out whats happening punch him in the face… hard.

[Grant]

I wouldn’t think of all of us in England with the same view that you had of that idiotic chav. We aren’t all racist. I know I aren’t and I’m a proud English citizen. You’ll get racists no matter what country you go to, you just have to be the bigger man - shrug and walk away. Don’t give fools like that the time of day.

[Jimkemon]

Did this thread really need resurrection?