I’ll start this topic off by quoting a conversation between two in game characters, Enkak and his father An’jou.
{Enkak:}
Shhh…
Daddy is telling a story.
{An?jou:}
Shall I talk about Uru now?
{Enkak:}
I know that story.
A town sank under a lake, right?
{An?jou:}
No, that’s not the real Uru.
The real Uru is hidden behind
the wall of rock.
The path through the wall has
never been found…
{Enkak:}
Why don’t we go and find it, daddy!?
I’ll help ya, when I get big!
{An?jou:}
Very well, my son… we shall do so.
The interesting part here is the town that Enkak mentions, sunken beneath the lake of Uru. In the Gash’s mask topic, Heretic Agnostic brought up the concept of the “Uru faction”, the people who created Azel and the Light Wing project in the Ancient Age, the people who quite possibly were also responsible for the creation of the Towers and the dragons.
First, we must ask ourselves who the town belonged to. Was it this a town or fortress of the Uru faction in the Ancient Age? If so, it raises a number of questions, especially why the town was flooded. Was this part of their plan (the downfall of the Ancient Age?) or perhaps another faction/force ceased control of the Tower and used it to raise the water level.
Another possibly is that the town was built after the Ancient Age - it may have been flooded in An’jou’s lifetime, or it could be a story passed down by his ancestors (but not as far back as the Ancients). Perhaps a Zoah like town existed in Uru but it got too heavily populated (a potential threat to the Tower system) so Sestren raised the water level in order to limit the population?
It’s just a theory but the “real” Uru always seemed like some sort of ecosphere to me which could only be accessed from underground (or by breaking through the outer dome which I think is exactly what Atolm did). This facility was definitely part of the “Uru faction”. I don’t know whether or not the area was flooded intentionally but it’s clear that, like the other ruins, the facility wasn’t functional until Edge reactivated it. That’s really the part about the PD history that I find the most puzzling, even though the Ancients apparently succeeded to “reset” the world, the system that was supposed to rebuild it failed to start. Where exactly did their plan go wrong, or should we say who sabotaged it and for what reason?
Huh? What were they planning to rebuild? I only recall the towers taking care of the environment, the monsters keeping the human population under control, etc.
What part failed to start?
For Uru, knowing there’s a city sank there doesn’t mean they or their ancestors were there to see it. Someone could have discovered bits & pieces, which spawned legends.
[quote=“Al3xand3r”]Huh? What were they planning to rebuild? I only recall the towers taking care of the environment, the monsters keeping the human population under control, etc.
What part failed to start?[/quote]
It was said in PD Saga that the Towers weren’t functioning normally. The activation of the Tower of Uru shows what the Tower’s were actually supposed to be doing. Azel was the one that activated the Tower, but Craymen was the one who activated her. Abadd, who’s mission was to revive the Ancients, was also awakened by the Empire and was clearly “malfunctioning”. Something went terribly wrong with the Ancients’ plan there, it seems to me the drones weren’t activated in time so in turn the Tower’s remained in standby. The question is how much of this was actually sabotage and how much of this was due to the Ancients’ own mistakes. Perhaps even luck has something to do with it, would the Heresy Dragon have acted the same if it hadn’t teamed up with Lagi and Lundi?
I know the rundown Tower scenario has become quite widely accepted, but I think it’s worth keeping in mind that the Seekers’ knowledge is far from perfect, and I don’t think Gash or Zadoc ever directly imply an incompletion of the Towers’ task do they? As an observation, they may perceive them to be mostly dormant, and are speculating that they may not be operating the way they were intended. That’s just how I initially interpreted these things.
To the topic: that’s a good catch Solo! Once more it could just be a story based on inference, there are inorganic structures there after all. But after thinking about the possible genocidal events of the past, and the centralized role Uru must have played in those events, it becomes a lot more suggestive. And of course we know they could rapidly change the water level in another part of Uru…
It could seem vaguely diabolical, if an actual extermination event was deliberately turned into some allegorical tale of their culture?
EDIT: Something caught my attention a few days ago, though not directly related to this it’s connected to issues that this topic also makes me think of. This is from the Timeline:
35 A.F.
The 3rd emperor announces his candidacy to the Empire, and declared his rights. His grandfather was the Founder of the Empire, who standardized the excavation of the ruins and initiated the declaration of rights begun 35 years ago. At the same time a member of the Imperial family from the Old Century declares that the ancient ruins are completely theirs.
I can’t think of one single other reference to indicate a remembered connection to the Ancient Age (Old Century) in that way. The closest corroboration may be the town of Zoah, and that caused me to wonder if the Seekers, and therefore the Empire, might trace back to a similar ‘reservation’ like Zoah may be? Perhaps some catastrophe forced them to abandon the place, yet they had a leg up on other wild humans, if like Zoah their rulers had an existing relationship with the ancient technology.
One way or another, these things start to paint a far more nuanced picture of the different sources of lore and remembrance that could have shaped separate cultures.
I wonder if the activated version of the Tower does indeed represent the correctly functioning state of a Tower? It’s difficult to know given the lack of evidence we have about the true nature of the Towers, but it’s a really interesting topic to ponder.
And it might not be the first time that an allegorical tale was created by the Ancients. Perhaps with a purpose in mind, in both cases?
Weapons of such power must be
handled by the rightful heir of
the ancient civilization, his
highness. That is the path of
world order, and that is why we
exist.
Yeah Solo I didn’t forget about the Empire’s propaganda in that regard, I just mean the timeline is the only thing that verges on being a factual statement to the effect their claims could have a basis. Though it’s not from within the games.
I had nearly forgot that the “legendary kindling of the Guardian Fire” comes across like it’s in direct communication with the Tower of Uru, how/why else would it be sending Edge a vision of Mel-Kava? Which could mean the high priest reports to Sestren in some sense, possibly without knowing it…
Well, when talking to Juba in his bar he says he was born in the town of Uru and it sank. So, that’s the story/rumor Enkak must have heard. So, in actuality: not too long ago it did indeed sink. Maybe when Juba was a boy.
Juba:
“I was born in Uru. There was a huge town there. The town got water from the ruins, but the water kept rising. Now, everything is underwater. Its ruins are surrounded by walls of rock.”
An’jou just happens to know of the actual ancient ruins of Uru, besides the town that sank.
Looks like you just solved the mystery of the town of Uru, legaiaflame. Nice one.
Of course, this doesn’t explain everything, especially how the other ruins in this area relate to the downfall of the Ancient Age.
We also don’t know why Juba’s town was flooded. I think it’s likely that the Tower flooded it due to overpopulation. A part of “Craymen’s vision”, as Gash put it.
But why would Sestren show high priest or Edge how to get to the Tower? Hmm, I think I need to play Panzer Dragoon Saga again too.
There is a very intriguing possibility that Zoah was set up by a rogue faction, rather than the Uru orthodoxy, though I can think of little to actually imply the alternative.
I’m so ashamed though, I just played through that part and I missed Juba’s long answer about Uru! :anjou_embarassed: I think it’s cause I neglected to talk to him a second time after Paet shows us Uru, but before leaving.
About Uru
{Juba} Go ahead, ask me about Uru.
{Juba} I was born there, ya know.
{Edge} What? You lived near the ruins?
{Juba} Ya never heard the story, kid?
{Juba} There was a huge town in Uru.
{Juba} The town got water from the ruins,
{Juba} but the water kept rising.
{Juba} Now, everything is underwater.
{Edge} What can you tell me about the ruins?
{Juba} I really don’t know much about them.
{Edge} You told me to ask you anything.
{Juba} Nobody knows about the ruins.
{Juba} It’s surrounded by walls of rock.
{Juba} You might be crazy enough to try and
{Juba} scale the wall, but you’ll be easy
{Juba} prey for the beasts that live there.
I think you may be onto something Solo, for one thing because a town at Uru would probably have been settled, in part, because of it’s proximity to Zoah. Maybe the Holy District council even "prayed’ for something to be done about so many “outsiders” living so close, eh?
Are you suggesting that the Holy District could somehow (perhaps indirectly) be serving The Will of the Ancients? Because that possibility intrigues me.
I think it’s very hard to escape that probability, just try going through Disks 2 and 3 of Saga with that notion planted in mind, the reinforcements are around just about every turn… The Guardian Fire device evidently needs to be “kindled”, as in it requires the attention of the High Priest’s communion in some manner? The discussions about Rhoda being one of the “chosen”, with the Holy District’s population rigidly constrained according to the amount of “blessings from the forest” they receive, and that forest is clearly under the close watch and control of the Tower? Also it is “against the will of the gods” that they should share any of those forest blessings with outsiders…
The only other plausible interpretation for Zoah, that I can see right now, is that they represent the same faction that somehow inserted the Heresy Dragon into the system, and as a part of that subversion they also created a loophole for their own survival in the meantime. Which could resolve the idiosyncrasies of their faith a lot more easily, since it would make the Heresy Dragon the obvious and only herald they’ve been waiting for. But that’s still the far less substantiated option.
I’m under the impression that the Ancients deliberately started a religion here, perhaps as another way of controlling the environment (by controlling the people in it). By accepting the Zoah bibles as a code to live by, the people of Zoah would also be accepting the Ancient plan. Perhaps the Ancients only wanted people in their new world who were obedient to their will.
This is another intriguing possibility. Perhaps the “Day of End” mentioned in the bibles actually refers to the Heresy Dragon destroying the Towers. Alternatively, the mentioning of the dragon in the Zoah bibles could refer to any dragon, specifically those under the command of Sestren.
