(I couldn’t see a topic on this but sorry if there is)
How would you imagine a Panzer Dragoon (shooter type) game for the Nintendo Revolution?
I think it would be the perfect control scheme and could possibly only require the actual remote (not the nun-chuck) if it the gameplay was simplified back to the original. The 3D sensing would handle the targeting and flying perfectly, the big A button would shoot and the D-pad would rotate. This would leave the trigger for berzerk or morphing or something new.
If one wanted a deeper gameplay, you could use the nun-chuck attachement for 2 more triggers and an analogue stick. The analogue would be preferable for rotating so that you would’nt have to stop shooting.
I think that sounds like quite a fasinating way to control the game. I’d like to see it, even though personally I’d suspect the team making it would come up with something even better that we wouldn’t expect.
Not sure if it wuld even happen though, based on Orta I’d suspect they will go for the console with the flashiest graphics so unless the revolution is more powerful than expected the next pd won’t be on it.
Indeed, it’s interesting, but I still don’t see it happening…
Nintendo didn’t pick up on Orta, I don’t really seeing them taking up any new PD games sadly enough, even though this type of rail-shooter may just use the new controller well, if not perfectly.
Only time will tell. But I’m certainly not getting my hopes up…
Wouldn’t the decision have been Sega’s to port Orta to the 'cube rather than Nintendo’s though?
And who says Nintendo didn’t try to pick up Orta on first place? Nintendo obviously thinks Sega can do something right if they let them create F-Zero for them. I’d imagine it was simply not ported because it would be a lot of work and almost remaking the game considering many of the effects that defined its look are not possible on a GameCube.
That’s true…fair enough.
I’m just slightly annoyed with it tis all. Gamecube just seemed to miss out on so many good games, almost being left behind…
Not saying that the Gamecube didn’t have some classics…it’s just…I would’ve liked to have owned Orta and been able to play it.
PDO not being on GC might also have had something to do with Starfox/wing too. They might not have wanted any competition with their own rail-shooter and so didn’t encourage it for GC. Also, since Xbox is regarded as the home for “hardcore gamers” and shooters being quite a hardcore niche, maybe the Xbox just looked better for orta. GC did get Ikaruga mind.
Hmm thats some interesting ideas people have on why pdo never got to gc, I was it had as well actually. I like the gc most out of the current set of consoles and going back a year and a bit I actually got a xbox only to play orta and that was the only game on the entire system that I ended up owning for the 6months I had it.
So now I’m playing my flatmates gc all the time and having to wait for the NZ xbox360 launch so that regular xboxes are cheap enough for it to make sense to grab one just for Orta.
I’ve never had a PS2 or Xbox (I’ve never played Orta ).
Anyway back on topic, any comments on the control scheme I described?
It’s a nice concept, the idea has been discussed here in the past as people were speculating about the control scheme of an Arcade Panzer Dragoon game where you’d use a lightgun and ride on the back of a dragon shooting enemies @ monitors placed at the front, back and sides.
As for your specific idea, it’d be better to use the wand’s trigger to shoot rather than the A button, just to get that “holding a gun” feel.
Also rather than using the D-pad, it might be handy being able to rotate the controller left and right to twist your view (since the D-pad looks clunky to control anyway). Otherwise, maybe A to lock on lasers and B/trigger for firing your gun? It would make sense context-wise, since in the game you fire the gun with a trigger but use your “mental link” or whatever to tell the dragon to shoot.
To be honest, I’m not quite down with the idea of the Revolution controller yet, but it does seem to have it’s uses. It should be noted however that the PC version of Panzer Dragoon didn’t support mouse input, so restricting the game to pad controls may simply be a design decision. The focus of the game might be skewed a bit if you could simply point and click at your target to destoy it. Especially since you’d be able to point at targets much more quickly, they’d almost have to turn the game into a twitch shooter to keep it from being too easy.
firstly, I think a lot of people missunderstand the Rev controller, it’s not a light gun and would be rubbish if used exactly as one. If anyone here thinks it is simply a pointer with motion sensing, you need to do more research.
With that out of the way, one could argue that it could make targeting and flying too easy due to its intuivity etc compared to a d-pad or stick. The simple solution to this is to make the actual gameplay more difficult now that control is a doddle, whether this be with more or more challenging enemies or some completely new mechanic.
As for other controls, you could obviously offer a choice between using the a button or trigger for shooting, but personaly my thumb is stronger and better at button bashing. I doubt you could do rotating with the motion sensing without interupting the aiming so the only viable alternative to the D-pad would be the analogue stick on the nun-chuck attachment which would be perfect for me, I agree that the D-pad would be horrid for rotating.
It can work as one and it would be absolutely great for a Panzer Dragoon game (or any third/first person shooting game).
I prefer the trigger over the A button simply for the immersion factor.
The rider is holding a gun, why shouldn’t I feel like I’m holding one too? I’d love to use the left stick to move my dragon around while aiming and shooting @ the enemies virtua cop style. The lock on would work the same by holding down the trigger.
Besides, the function doesn’t change just because you use a different button (A instead of trigger), it still works the exact same way.
Even a generic FPS game would become twice as much fun if the aiming and shooting was done in the same way it’s done in lightgun games. It’s a brilliant design aspect of the pad and everyone who looks into it agrees that it may just be the first time a controller surpasses the PC’s keyboard and mouse combo for FPS games.
Ok it can be used like one with but works in a very different way (ie no matter how far from the TV you are you will get the same effect, instead of being easier if you are close up).
The difference I think that needs to be made clear between PD and light gun rail shooter games like virtua cop is that in PD, you aren’t just shooting but flying too. To a certain extent you are aiming the Dragon as well as the gun. Making PD like virtua cop would make it a very different game indeed.
I don’t understand what this comment is responding to.
Very true but I’m not sure my index finger is up to it.
I don’t like the idea of FPSs mutating into lightgun shooters, the main problem being that you have to change direction as well as aim the gun with the same input.
This video might explain a lot to those confused about the pad:
Pay close attention to the gun and sword parts.
I believe the controller would be perfect for FPS games, and a Panzer game as well.
Panzer Dragoon is a rail shooter at heart and you don’t actually control the path the dragon takes, you just subtly pitch and lean around obstacles depending on how far you aim to a edge of the screen. This would work the same way with the Revolution controller I suspect.
In the video, just because the gun moved as a whole when the aim was taking place does not mean thats the only way the Revolution controllers aim function can be implemented. In the current setup of one joypad aims and the other controls movement in current controllers, all you would be doing is replacing the aiming joystick with the Revolution controller. Intead of moving the joypad you would move the aimer in a direction slightly to determine the the speed of you crosshair (center of the screen) moving in that direction. I think it would work flawlessly.
But in either case, I really hope a new Panzer Dragoon rail shooter shows itself on the Revolution, or any next gen console for that matter honestly.
Grumbler, after that little speech of yours about how people don’t understand the way the Rev controller works, your last reply shows you are the one who doesn’t understand the possibilities it brings to the table.
FPS games will not “evolve into light gun shooters”, instead they can now MERGE. You can have the full 3D freedom of movement by using the left analogue stick, and on the other hand the full fun factor of a Lightgun game by aiming and looking around using the wand.
A Panzer game wouldn’t require the stick even, as Felix explained above (it’d be akin to guiding the crosshair with a mouse on PC, except you’d do it with the wand). Though I’d probably prefer if it did.
Anyway, it’s a set up that will work excellently for most first and third person games, ie the majority of modern titles.
Of course it’ll also work flawlessly with many other titles, old or new… But I’m not here to argue that and it would take many pages to explain how the controller would work in every game genre…
NOTE all my posts should be read in a jovial tone, I’m a friendly person
Me too .
Did I say it was? I just meant the video to show confused people how the controller works, with some suggested control schemes (some of which are crap by the way e.g. mario and SC).
The thing is that I think that PD should evolve with the controller, mainly by more direct control of the dragon ie by tilting the controller you can tilt the dragon for dodging more subtle obstacles or even fire from enemies. Simple translation of the d-pad to tilting up and down would be an inadequate evolution for me.
Indeed, though I think it would be granted much more attention on the Rev, just like quality games did on the GC so perhaps Nintendo’s console would be the best commercial bet for the longer term survival of the series. The GC was always meant to be the refuge of Sega console fans but sadly the Xbox hd more exclusives in the end e.g JSRF, Shenmue 2 and of course PDO.
I forgot to note that I was speaking in relation to FPS controls when I described how I thought control should be implemented in upcoming games in the second paragraph of my previous post.
Grumbler, i’m afraid I still don’t understand how exactly you want control to work in a new Panzer game. I like your remark about how the game shoulld evolve with the controller, and this in turn is what Nintendo is trying to do in the next generation. But what i’m confused with is do you want the tilt and roll of the controller to control the dodging and swaying of the dragon while at the same time directing where to fire? I personally would think that would be pretty difficult from a gameplay point of view, trying to rotate and tilt the controller while at the same time keeping a steady line of sight on your enemy and pushing the trigger sounds a little hard to me, but then again I may just not have much faith.
It will be nintendo best interest to have a panzerdragoon game on there new system, so they won’t be left behind like the game cube that I still play more then my “crap” Box???.
Felix, I’m not exactly sure how to handle it myself in truth. Some of my comments are just individual ideas and will possibly contradict.
I see the problem you describe, in PD the dragon sort of loosely follows the targeting sight whereas I would like to directly control it as if holding it like you hold the controller. This would make targeting somewhat different so there must be some kind of middle ground that is more direct than in existing games but preserves the partialy independent targeting.