now attempting swap trick 
downloading now via torrentā¦thanks to everyone who donated!
[quote=āChizzlesā]Swap trick is for n00bz!!!11
home.clara.net/robwebb/shop/ sells Saturn chips for ?13 
try one![/quote]
Not compatible with mine. 
Has anyone had a chance to try the other prototypes yet?
The prototype disc 4 seems to load the savegames from the retail game just fine, and interestingly itās a version with English subtitles. Even though some ingame translations are corrupted, it seems itās a more literal translation from the original versions. More surprisingly it also seems to be more accurate at times than the final translation. Even though my knowledge of Japanese is very limited, I still noticed at times that the characters in PD Saga were saying something completely different from what the subtitles were showing. The prototype actually has the correct translation for at least some of those inaccuracies.
For example thereās the cinematic where Azel stays behind in the Tower of Uru when Edge goes to fight Sestren, the translation is mostly identical in both versions except for this part:
Original version
[quote]Azel:When you leave for Sestren, I will destroy this Tower. Sestren will not be able to escape.
EdgeI wonāt let you. Azel, what will happen to you?
AzelI amā¦ the only oneā¦ that can destroy the Tower.[/quote]
Prototype
[quote]Azel: When you leave for Sestren, I will destroy this Tower. Then they can escape safely too.
Edge: I wonāt let you. ā¦What will happen to you, Azel?
Azel: I do not know, but I will be okayā¦ It is not that I will
dieā¦[/quote]
Notice how the latter translation makes a lot more sense, while the translation for the final version completely changes the meaning of certain lines. The in-game subtitles seem to be different as well, although certain subtitles are corrupted in the prototype. Another example:
Original
[quote]Impurity detectedā¦ Pursue at onceā¦ Impurity locatedā¦ Activate Shelcoofā¦
Too many mutants are born these days.
Impurity near, eliminate itā¦ Impurity reacquiredā¦ Eliminate it once moreā¦
ā¦Activation of D Type 01ā¦ confirmedā¦[/quote]
Prototype
[quote]Errorā¦ delete failureā¦ Pursue at onceā¦ Point confirmedā¦ Activate Shelcoof
Too many mutants are born these days.
Sealing of an error, verifiedā¦ Revival of the error, verifiedā¦ Seal it once moreā¦
ā¦Activation of D Type 01, confirmedā¦[/quote]
The protoype seems to have a more literal translation here and although thereās not much difference between the two versions, the āSealing of an error, verifiedā part in the prototype seems to be more accurate since it explains the āeliminate/seal it once moreā part later on.
Original version
[quote]Now, it shall endā¦
This voiceā¦ the dragon!?
The will of the ancientsā¦ It is now with meā¦ The Divine Visitor must destroy me. ā¦That is why I have returned.[/quote]
Prototype
[quote]Now, it shall endā¦
This voiceā¦ the dragon!?
The ancient ruins, Everything is now with meā¦ Now, kill me, āAbsolute Guestā. ā¦That is why I have returned.[/quote]
Again a more literal translation in the prototype. Not necessarily better, but āThe ancient ruins, Everything is now with meā implies that the Heresy Program was controlling the tower network and destroying it would deactivate the ruins. The final translation is more cryptic, referring to āthe Will of the Ancientsā instead of simply āthe ancient ruinsā.
Very interestingā¦ nice find, D-Unit.
Some responses below:
[quote=āD-Unitā]Original version
:When you leave for Sestren, I will destroy this Tower. Sestren will not be able to escape.
EdgeI wonāt let you. Azel, what will happen to you?
AzelI amā¦ the only oneā¦ that can destroy the Tower.
Prototype
: When you leave for Sestren, I will destroy this Tower. Then they can escape safely too.
Edge: I wonāt let you. ā¦What will happen to you, Azel?
Azel: I do not know, but I will be okayā¦ It is not that I will
dieā¦
Notice how the latter translation makes a lot more sense, while the translation for the final version completely changes the meaning of certain lines. The in-game subtitles seem to be different as well, although certain subtitles are corrupted in the prototype.[/quote]
In some ways the prototype translation makes more sense, but in other ways it doesnāt. What does she mean by āThen they can escape safely too.ā They, being the Seekers?
Also, the last line āI do not know, but I will be okayā¦ It is not that I will
dieā¦ā is much more informative, however it is less dramatic than āI amā¦ the only oneā¦ that can destroy the Tower.ā I always thought this was Azel ignoring Edgeās question because she thought that she was going to die when the Tower was destroyed, or at least wasnāt sureā¦ it was her way of saying āIām going to sacrifice myself by destroying myself and the Tower so that Sestren cannot escape through this gateā.
[quote=āD-Unitā]Another example:
Original
[quote]Errorā¦ delete failureā¦ Pursue at onceā¦ Point confirmedā¦ Activate Shelcoof
Too many mutants are born these days.
Sealing of an error, verifiedā¦ Revival of the error, verifiedā¦ Seal it once moreā¦
ā¦Activation of D Type 01, confirmedā¦[/quote]
Prototype
[quote]Impurity detectedā¦ Pursue at onceā¦ Impurity locatedā¦ Activate Shelcoofā¦
Too many mutants are born these days.
Impurity near, eliminate itā¦ Impurity reacquiredā¦ Eliminate it once moreā¦
ā¦Activation of D Type 01ā¦ confirmedā¦[/quote]
The protoype seems to have a more literal translation here and although thereās not much difference between the two versions, the āSealing of an error, verifiedā part in the prototype seems to be more accurate since it explains the āeliminate/seal it once moreā part later on.[/quote]
I donāt remember that line in the originalā¦ do you have the prototype and original around the wrong way here by any chance?
[quote=āD-Unitā]Original version
[quote]Now, it shall endā¦
This voiceā¦ the dragon!?
The will of the ancientsā¦ It is now with meā¦ The Divine Visitor must destroy me. ā¦That is why I have returned.[/quote]
Prototype
[quote]Now, it shall endā¦
This voiceā¦ the dragon!?
The ancient ruins, Everything is now with meā¦ Now, kill me, āAbsolute Guestā. ā¦That is why I have returned.[/quote]
Again a more literal translation in the prototype. Not necessarily better, but āThe ancient ruins, Everything is now with meā implies that the Heresy Program was controlling the tower network and destroying it would deactivate the ruins. The final translation is more cryptic, referring to āthe Will of the Ancientsā instead of simply āthe ancient ruinsā.[/quote]
The prototype is definitely more informative here, although I think I like the final gameās translation better. Itās good evidence that the Heresy Program essentially took Sestrenās job, although it makes the continuation of the Heresy Programās story in PD Orta look a bit weak if the Divine Visitor effectively killed him by pushing the button. I wonder if the Japanese version mentions this?
Yes, ātheyā would have to be the Seekers. I remember the part about Sestren escaping was debated on this forum before since it didnāt make much sense, and for good reason.
Still, I donāt see why they would need to alter the original meaning of the words just for the sake of making things a bit more dramatic. Change the meaning enough and you might as well be reading a fanfic instead of the original work.
Yes I did, Iāll edit my previous post to correct that.
The Heresy Programās story didnāt continue in PD Orta, that was just the dragon. The encounter with the Heresy Program in PD Orta was most likely a recording, showing how the dragon separated from the Heresy Program at the end of PD Saga.
Gah, the cables Iāve purchased donāt do the job. Looks like itāll be a bit longer before I can record the prototypes.
Well, what are you trying to record them to?
Easiest way would be either, have the Saturn directly linked to your capture card or record it to DVD then rip it to the PC using the DVD drive.
I have a Blackmagic Intensity Pro. This has composite inputs, and I have the following set up:
Saturn > Saturn SCART cable > SCART female to female coupler > SCART to composite cable > Intensity Pro
And it doesnāt work. Iāve tried all the settings on the Intensity, and the cables arenāt faulty as Iāve tested them with other equipment. It has to be a signal incompatibility issue. Itās the default SCART cable that came with the Saturnā¦ what output is that? (RGB / composite / s-video?)
THe SCART that comes with the Saturn is RGB + Composite.
It could be an incompatability with the resolution, Panzer Dragoon Saga ouputs at 240p mode, some capture cards refuse to recognise it.
Hmm. Quite possibly. But my Dreamcast and VHS recorder donāt work via the same method either.
The Dreamcastās SCART is RGB and Sync only with no composite, are you using an RGB Scart with the Dreamcast?
As for the VHS, that is bizarre indeedā¦
Iām using the official SCART cable, which I believe is RGB. I thought my set up would pass through the signal adequately, as Blackmagic have told me that the card accepts RGB signal inputs.
Perhaps; this is the sort of dialogue that can be interpreted many ways. I just wonder why Azel would have needed to destroy the Tower, if not to prevent Sestren from coming out of the gate that she had just opened? What was the significance of destroying that Tower, when Sestren itself was about to be destroyed? Perhaps if Edge failed, the Tower would be destroyed, so the Seekers could escape.
[quote=āD-Unitā]
Still, I donāt see why they would need to alter the original meaning of the words just for the sake of making things a bit more dramatic. Change the meaning enough and you might as well be reading a fanfic instead of the original work.[/quote]
I think quite a lot of the English version was changed from the Japanese version (Azel confessing her love for Edge etc). Iād be interested to know what the prototype says about that lineā¦
Apparantly the Ancients were never referred to as human in the Japanese version either (I think Abadd and Lord Craymen can confirm more about thisā¦).
I like the way Chris Lucichās translation was kept quite vague/mysterious in places (such as with the line above, and also the line about the Will of the Ancients), but these prototype translations are certainly a breath of fresh air when it comes to trying to interpret what is going on during the games. And I think youāre right about them being closer to the original meaning, perhaps an even better resource in some places for determining the canon storyline than the games themselves?
Whoops, youāre quite right. Looks like I need to play Orta again :anjou_embarassed:
Judging by the use of the words āAbsolute Guestā Iām guessing these proto translations are indeed more literal. Lucichās version was probably to make them make more sense in plain old english.
Oddly enough it was also added in the prototype, which makes me wonder if it was actually the original translator that added the words instead of Lucich. In this case I donāt think it actually changes the meaning of the sentence though (āIā¦ā instead of āI love youā), but it makes more sense to me that Azel couldnāt finish the sentence since (as a drone) she probably didnāt understand her feelings for Edge at that point.
If I remember correctly Abbadd mentioned the translator didnāt actually know anything about the game itself while Luchic, who didnāt understand Japanese, had to work from that translation to create the finished version. Apparently these prototypes contain that original translation, or at least a part of it.
Iāve been going through some of the files, hereās another interesting comparison (encounter with Sestren):
Final version
[quote]
Edge: Weāve come this far. Now itās up to usā¦ Sestren, show yourself! The Divine Visitor has come.
Sestren: I see you have returnedā¦ With a humanā¦ Our purpose is to fulfill the will of the ancients. Butā¦ You have chosen a different pathā¦ You ignore your dutyā¦ You disobey the ancient onesā¦ Now, Divine Visitorā¦ you shall die![/quote]
Prototype
[quote]
Edge: Youāve finally come this farā¦ The place āyouā wished to beā¦ Now, show me the answerā¦ Show me your true power!!
Sestren: I see you have returnedā¦ And that humanā¦ Our purpose is to fulfill the assigned dutyā¦ Butā¦ You exist beyond that willā¦ Eliminateā¦ as done beforeā¦ Eliminateā¦ erroneous willā¦ and Divine Visitor![/quote]
Again the prototype is more of a literal translation. While thereās certainly interesting differences here for the fans it doesnāt make much sense for anyone else, so itās understandable that this was altered for the final version. Note how the prototype translation again reveals that the āerrorā had been eliminated once before (PD Zwei I assume) just like in the memory orbs, something that was lost in the edited version.
Some other smaller differences I noticed: the āThrough The Heartā attack from Sestren was called āPhysical Attack Structureā in the prototype, while the āActivate Surroundings Detection Systemā was called āUnleash Ghost Dragonsā. Ne-Rai was translated in the prototype as āRain death on himā.
I donāt really mind lines being mildly changed to enhance the drama of scenes, itās not like they seriously changed the plot pertaining to Azelās fate in any way.
We still know that Azel did not die, either wayā¦
Yeah, I always thought of it as a back-up in case Sestren couldnāt be destroyed. Or simply to rid the world of the Tower so it couldnāt be used or manipulated in any way.
Anyway, made for a dramatic scene =P
I read somewhere that Ne-rai roughly means āaimā. Also that a magazine previewing, or whatever, PDS had āRain death on himā as the meaning.
Perhaps they had or played the prototype and got it from there? Or maybe it actually doesnāt mean āaimā at all =P
Has anyone gotten the prototypes to work successfully when mounted with Daemon Tools? My āSaturnā is throwing up the āGame disc unsuitable for this systemā error.
EDIT: Nevermind, got them to actually load. The Dec 22 1997 disc 1 proto is the only one Iāve tried so far, and all that does is play the intro before cutting out back to the ādashboardā. =/