New Sega game dev. structure

SEGA
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[quote=“Al3xand3r”]Panzer Dragoon Saga is quite unlike the average japanese RPG in its art style and depth and, imo, closer to the western style… It’s definitely not very feasable to compare Panzer Dragoon with the likes of Final Fantasy or even Shining Force… Hell, I’d find it easier to compare it with KOTOR or something lol…

Americans have created unrealistic games and the Japanese have created realistic games in the past.

Lagi(_webmaster) created some very nice PD style models in his little free time while Lord Craymen also did that great PD Genos video. Other people from here have done great PD fan art as well. Why would you think that people like that only exist here and couldn’t be working in a western game studio (a couple of them are/were I believe)?

The Panzer world has quite a “Realistic” look and feel anyway (and I’m talking post Orta age here)… With today’s tech, all games get a certain degree of what you’d call “realism” anyway, with the ammount of detail crammed into the characters and environments. Look at the upcoming Zelda for example, it’s definitely more realistic looking than the likes of Ocarina of Time. And I don’t see anything in it that wouldn’t be really possible from an american developer. The same goes for the Panzer Dragoon world from where I’m seeing it.

I don’t think that stereotyping reply was the best one to give a reason as to why an American studio shouldn’t give it a shot at all… Not for me atleast…[/quote]

It?s not stereotyping it?s saying the truth.

When you plays the likes of KOTR or FABLE you know just by the look of it that?s it?s a Western production (well more or less). Unlike when you play SOA or Dark Cloud II and that?s got a Japanese stamp all over it .

Games like O.TO.GI (No way a Western Team could do that Art Direction), Viewtiful Joe, JSRF are just so Japanese to look . And that?s not knocking or being nasty to the west. It?s just saying the truth in how the likes of FSW, HL II, DOOM III are so western in thier looks.

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Well, I’m glad you didn’t use Panzer Dragoon Saga in the example of the “so japanese to look at” games because frankly as mentioned in my previous post, it’s not.

There’s of course going to be a difference in a lot of/most of the developers’ styles but stereotyping as to make them ALL appear like that is NOT the truth.

I can name more realistic looking japanese games for example. Panzer Dragoon Saga(ok, I guess you disagree with this one, heh), Metal Gear, Virtua Fighter, all those racing games (ha!), and definitely more which I can’t think of now.

Anyway, there is something called talent and skill and when you have these and are an artist you can create anything you want in any style you want… Again, just because the developers may be americans, doesn’t mean the game would turn into Dungeons and Dragoons.

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[quote=“Al3xand3r”]Well, I’m glad you didn’t use Panzer Dragoon Saga in the example of the “so japanese to look at” games because frankly as mentioned in my previous post, it’s not.

There’s of course going to be a difference in a lot of/most of the developers’ styles but stereotyping as to make them ALL appear like that is NOT the truth.

I can name more realistic looking japanese games for example. Panzer Dragoon Saga(ok, I guess you disagree with this one, heh), Metal Gear, Virtua Fighter, all those racing games (ha!), and definitely more which I can’t think of now.

Anyway, there is something called talent and skill and when you have these and are an artist you can create anything you want in any style you want… Again, just because the developers may be americans, doesn’t mean the game would turn into Dungeons and Dragoons.[/quote]

Look I made it quite clear I was generalising a bit, I know there?s a fair few Japanese games that go for the real world look. I?m shocked you never brought up Shenmue 1 or II ;).

And I still think you judging me as one of these people that thinks only the Japanese can make good games, and the west cannot. I?m not like that , just when it comes to RPG?s, Shooters and driving games I do like to play Japanese based ones for the main. Becasue I’ve yet to play any RPG or shooter that can beat the likes of Lunar, Saga, Souky, Zwei, Battle Garegga, Out Run, Sega Rally,

You can?t deny they are a difference in Art direction to that of Westerns and Japanese games. We all know that losers like Bernie Stolar and Sony America hated 2D graphics, where in Japan it was still acceptable.
Really only the Japanese could make a game like Keio Flying Squadron, Game Paradise, in just the same way only the West could make the likes of Doom III, Rainbowsix, Quake

Just look at the styling of USA based console to that of the Japanese counter parts it’s the same for box art. There is a diff

If you look at Out Run II Special Tours for me that so Japanese and so SEGA . So don?t see the need of having a UK driving studio. I?m talking SEGA here. When nobody does it better than the AM#2 boys.

One as to ask what the point ?

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Al3x you didn’t get my point : you’re right - no one has the goal to “eventually make a good game” but we (the consumers) give the benefit of the doubt to unexperienced developers even if their firsdt game sucked.I do anyways.

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Well Sega has been outsourcing much of it’s IP to Sega development
outside of japan. PROJECT:ALTERED BEAST was one of the first games made by Sega Shanghai although it was partly developed with SOA and overseen by the japanese leader of the project. It seems that Sammy wants the main Sega internal dev divisions in Japan to focus more on arcades while Sega Studios USA and Sega Shanghai with the newly formed Racing Studio UK will handle half of Sega’s home console input in the future.

I think the purpose of Racing Studio UK is to create new IP and porting racing IP that the main racing division in japan can’t be bothered or have no time to do for home systems.

As for an RPG studio in america,well it’s not gonna happen now of course but
an RPG studio may give Sega the commitment it needs to persevere against it’s rivals. Sega being a third party in japan has to commit in making an RPG at a regular basis. Gone are the days where we have to wait for several years for a Sega made RPG. PSO has had three follow ups in the last two years alone(If you count PSO PLUS and PSO BB as true follow ups)
and by the end of the year we will have at least 4 new Sega RPGs not counting the ones TBA that they will reveal to be released.

If Sega just pooled all their efforts into one studio to adress the bigger market that RPGs has become since 1997 and get that woman who wrote the PS series to lead it,I think we’llsee some blinding RPGs from them then we do now.

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[quote=“Goonboy Panzer”]Well Sega has been outsourcing much of it’s IP to Sega development
outside of japan. PROJECT:ALTERED BEAST was one of the first games made by Sega Shanghai although it was partly developed with SOA and overseen by the japanese leader of the project. It seems that Sammy wants the main Sega internal dev divisions in Japan to focus more on arcades while Sega Studios USA and Sega Shanghai with the newly formed Racing Studio UK will handle half of Sega’s home console input in the future.

I think the purpose of Racing Studio UK is to create new IP and porting racing IP that the main racing division in japan can’t be bothered or have no time to do for home systems.

[/quote]

Well if it’s for more Arcade ports then I’m all for it.
Should add that Project Altered Beast was a SEGA Japan and WOW production in the main (It’s not even coming out in the USA). The new China studio is headed by a former member of WOW that worked on AB. It wasn’t made by the Team as such.

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Intially but much of the development took place in china. If you read Sega Voice that’s what the head of Sega Shanghai’s internal devlopment division
tells you in the interview. SOA according to him had some participation with the title as well. It actually explains why the game is very green behind the ears and not a professionally executed game that WOW would have created
if they soley worked on the game themselves.

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Sorry if I sound like our good old friend Abadd, but what was the last racing game developed by Sega for a home console that actually sold well? There isn’t a market for the arcade racers that Sega of Japan is so adept at making on consoles anymore.

And come on, with the likes of Project Gotham racing on the market, how can anyone say that western developers cannot compete against their Japanese counterparts when it comes to racing games?

Sega setting up any extra development studios in any part of the world can only be a good thing IMO.

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That’s there thinking with the new Racing Studio in the UK. The two markets are rapidly drifting apart then they were before, The Xbox is a great example of this fact. The racing ips that might be converted will be modified to suit western tastes. The whole point in giving SOA their own studio and setting up one for europe is because Sega wants back in the western markets again. their biggest successes of last year were in europe with FOOTBALL MANAGER and SONIC HEROES reaching a million units.

SONIC R is rumoured to be the first game to be released by the new SE division but completely remodified and is basing the engine from the PC version.

Now I know SegaSammy’s head honcho has stated that he’s intrested in buying up smaller dev teams in the west and I don’t know if Sega’s recent relationship with Monolith may lead to Sega buying them out or whether
sumo Digital’s success with OUTRUN 2 will lead hem to be the basis of the new Racing Studio but weve seen aa lot of movement from Sega western wise in the past month then we have seen in the last seven years.

Sega’s plan is simple. Cater to specific markets instead of releasing a general game from one market that the others won’t like. Out of all the markets the most important is the chinese one at the moment because of the sheer potential and user base. Sega is the first main competitor to
invest in the chinese video game/pc scene and later this year we will see if their efforts have paied off. But EA now wants in on this market by buying up smaller chinese game studios but sega has a massive headstart.

We will obviously see games from Japan but not that much anymore. As Geoffery Duke has often stated that Sega cares about the japanese market more than the west. Which is true ever since the Saturn became popular.
All the Sega dev teams are now intrested in is producing games for the japanese first. Now with Sega investing in the west again we will get the games that we want to play and are more suited for us.

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[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]

And come on, with the likes of Project Gotham racing on the market, how can anyone say that western developers cannot compete against their Japanese counterparts when it comes to racing games?

Sega setting up any extra development studios in any part of the world can only be a good thing IMO.[/quote]

You see that the mistake you’re making. I’m not saying Western developers can’t make good racers. I’m trying to focus on SEGA (not any other developer). Nobody with in the SEGA group makes a better racer than Yu Suzuki. So don’t see the need for SEGA to make a new racing sudio when the Yu and the boys are good enough.

Give them the money to makes the likes of a new Daytona USA, and F355 is what I say. And start to port the likes of Out Run II SP (A true SEGA game).

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[quote]Now I know SegaSammy’s head honcho has stated that he’s intrested in buying up smaller dev teams in the west and I don’t know if Sega’s recent relationship with Monolith may lead to Sega buying them out or whether
sumo Digital’s success with OUTRUN 2 will lead hem to be the basis of the new Racing Studio but weve seen aa lot of movement from Sega western wise in the past month then we have seen in the last seven years[/quote]

People go on Sumo success. But all they was to port the game. It’s not like they made the game from the ground up. AM#2 did all the hardwork in terms of desgin and gameplay.

So just becasue Sumo did so well, does not mean that a new SEGA Europe racing studio could make a game half as good as Out Run. That is designed from the ground up by them.

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Your forgetting TA that Sega Japan was impressed with Sumo’s efforts in porting the game near perfect which is why they gave the go ahead for SE first internal development division. This new studio is meant to be designed around the Sumo Digital group. I know that Sumo Digital is working on another game for Sega at the moment.

I can’t see why you think OUTRUN SP is more Sega than OUTRUN 2. While the second is an improvement(which sequels tend to be for games) they’re
both are pure unadulterated Sega.

Unlike VF4 and INITIAL D:STAGE 4 games. Sega has gone the capcom route with those two by producing updates of the same game without an actual sequel to them to please their hardcore arcade fans.

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[quote=“Goonboy Panzer”]Your forgetting TA that Sega Japan was impressed with Sumo’s efforts in porting the game near perfect which is why they gave the go ahead for SE first internal development division. This new studio is meant to be designed around the Sumo Digital group. I know that Sumo Digital is working on another game for Sega at the moment.

I can’t see why you think OUTRUN SP is more Sega than OUTRUN 2. While the second is an improvement(which sequels tend to be for games) they’re
both are pure unadulterated Sega.

Unlike VF4 and INITIAL D:STAGE 4 games. Sega has gone the capcom route with those two by producing updates of the same game without an actual sequel to them to please their hardcore arcade fans.[/quote]

Yeah I was impressed too, but AM#2 were mainly impressed by the compression routines that meant they were able to fit the game to run on X-Box 64MB of Ram (Unlikes Chihiro which can go up to 512MB). It?s not like they handle the look or design of the game (That was all AM#2). It’s much easier to port a game, than to make a new racing game from the ground up. While TT did an amazing jon on Sonic R, all the track and character desgin was done by Sonic Team Japan. Which made TT job a lot easier

Also I never for once said that Out Run II SP is more SEGA than Out Run II. Just that SP is so SEGA to look at. It?s typical SEGA design (basically letting it?s ART Team do what the hell they want). SEGA needs to ports games like this and Ollie King (another game that so SEGA) To please the SEGA faithull. Please them 1st before we go after the casuals.

Becaase of late SEGA is pleasing nobody

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The bottom line was they were impressed with the port. The idealogy of porting is n’t who created the game it’s about porting the game from one format to the other and whether it runs and looks like the original game. You’ve basically backed up what I said in the first place.

Just because they’ve never made the actual game is unimportant. If you can remember that STRIDER won an award for game of the year in the early days of the Genesis for Capcom when they in fact never published the game or developed it for the Genesis. Sega ported the game themselves because Capcom was n’t an Sega licensee until later on. IF it’s a good port of a game and you know as I do that some companies can make bad ports of a game,then let it be.

I don’t care for SONIC R, nor am I intrested in who made it but it’s meant to be remade by SE,If it turns out to be true of course. I hope the rumours of them tweaking arcade ports of Sega racers are true to fit in with the Colin Mcrea’s type of racer.

As for OLLIE KING I for one agree with you that this is a game I like to see on console but the present situation within the console world is stopping Sega fully porting their games on certain hardware. Because the Xbox is more popular in the west and non existant in Japan several games have n’t made it onto this system. Plus the fact that the Xbox userbase shunned Sega’s attempt of an arcade port with HOUSE OF THE DEAD 3 made them think twice in porting other arcade games including VF4. OUTRUN 2 was ported because Sega Europe lobbied Sega Japan for it’s release. But Sega has n’t made much profit out of any of their Xbox releases regardless of the reasons,Sega like any other business is going to concentrate on where their profits are and that seems to be the PS2,Gamecube and PC.

When the PS3 and Xbox2 comes out and have a level playing field in Japan
then i expect to see several games that missd out on Xbox including the long delayed VIRTUA COP 3.

A lot of people would disagree with you about not enjoying Sega games of late. But they may be people who don’t normally play Sega games like I pointed out before with the whole VF4 and INITIAL D fanbase.

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[quote]As for OLLIE KING I for one agree with you that this is a game I like to see on console but the present situation within the console world is stopping Sega fully porting their games on certain hardware. Because the Xbox is more popular in the west and non existant in Japan several games have n’t made it onto this system. Plus the fact that the Xbox userbase shunned Sega’s attempt of an arcade port with HOUSE OF THE DEAD 3 made them think twice in porting other arcade games including VF4. OUTRUN 2 was ported because Sega Europe lobbied Sega Japan for it’s release. But Sega has n’t made much profit out of any of their Xbox releases regardless of the reasons,Sega like any other business is going to concentrate on where their profits are and that seems to be the PS2,Gamecube and PC.

When the PS3 and Xbox2 comes out and have a level playing field in Japan
then i expect to see several games that missd out on Xbox including the long delayed VIRTUA COP 3.

A lot of people would disagree with you about not enjoying Sega games of late. But they may be people who don’t normally play Sega games like I pointed out before with the whole VF4 and INITIAL D fanbase[/quote]

Well to get SEGA good name back I firmly believe that SEGA needs to please it?s faithful 1st and foremost.

They really isn?t any reason why SEGA couldn?t do a shooter pack with VC II, Ghost Squad (and maybe thrown porst of VC 1 and II as well) all on one disc, with LIVE rankings and charge ?20.

That in my view would sell enough to justify the cost of port on the X-Box. Ollie King is screaming out for a port with full LIVE play and maybe some extra levels.
Ok it wouldn?t sell that well, but the game looks so different and unique , and is So SEGA.

It would help put SEGA back on the Map.
Games like JSRF, REZ never sold that well, but got loads of coverage in the gammng press ect, even people that hated SEGA applauded the looks of games like JSRF.

SEGA doesn?t even get that any more. Games like Out Run II SP, Ollie King would help to address this problem thanks to their stunning Art Design (So SEGA).

If SEGA Europe is serious about this. Then it should step in, where SEGA JP does not (Thanks to the poor user base of the X-Box in JP).

It should port the likes of SP Tours their self?s .
The port should include everything from the original X-Box port as well . Then all the new tracks, some new challenges, option for custom tracks, cut the LIVE players to 4 (to cut out the slowdown and lag), LIVE ranking modes for races (not just time trials) and ask ?20 for it.
I?m sure that would sell well enough, and if nothing else would please the SEGA faithful, that are crying out for a port.

It?s not been a good time to be a SEGA fan these last 2 years.
Gone are the days when I would call my friends over and put on the likes of ORTA to show the power of SEGA (Yes I know it’s so childish). Only to see their jaws drop at the graphics and sound on offer. While I feel to happy to my self that the likes of JSRF, ORTA are so SEGA, and only they can do games like this.

Well apart from the likes of VF EVO and OR II. There’s been little to shout about

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Yeah well you summed up a lot of what Sega fans and general fans of gaming ie the press,etc feel about Sega. But be assured Sega is being quiet for a reason…

As i said to really enjoy a game like VC3 you need a gun. Xbox doesn’t have an official gun and Madcatz ain’t filling the gap. Also they want a bigger user base in all markets to buy the game. The Xbox has n’t got that.
Only in the west. Sega can’t keep releasing big games if no one is gonna get them on a particuler format. In saying that though wait until E3 to see what Sega will pull out of it’s hat…

Another thing is that Sega now has Sammy games under their wing. This will increase the number of games they will release and the number of users that will buy a game because of who makes it. If you check this out

http://www.sega.co.jp/ps2/rumbfish/images/package_l.jpg

The Sammy title has been dropped. That if this is the final package version
and not a prototype. What an actual Sega game is will be different to all the different people who are playing their games from now on as Sega strives to become the number one games producer in the world.

If you see the arcades and the games of INITIAL D and VF4 then you know that the people playing them are not traditional Sega fans like you and me.
They’re just drawn to a game which happens to be produced by Sega. THE MATRIX ONLINE may draw the same thing. People who think Sega blows chunks regardless if they are good or crap yet want to play the popular games that they happen to create. They have made tons of money for Sega
and let them if it means that Sega will invest the money from these fools and give us the games that we the true fans want like PANZER DRAGOON V, then so be it.

I for one wish them well on this venture. But I also know that with the growing stable of dev teams that Sega has aquired they will become a very different company then we all knew and sadly that has already happened.

If you wish to continue to support them that is up to you.

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What the Hell? I love SEGA with all my heart. I?ll never turn my back on them.

There?s this myth that SEGA had loads of million sellers in the good old days It never did , not even in the Mega Drive days. Only a select few (made in-house) sold in the Millions .
SEGA games have always for in part been sort of cult games. It should never forget this when it trys to get big sales

There?s plenty of great Light Gun for the X-Box. SEGA even packaged one with HOTD III for JP. That Gun would be more than able to handle VC III Or GS. Trying to go after the casuals is pleasing no one so far, and just alienating it?s true fans that have put up with them throw thick and thin.

The true fans want SEGA to port the likes of VC III and SP yet it falls on death ears. That is not the way to get the good name back. The way is to please your Hardcore fans, because they will help to spread the world.

I don?t mind SEGA going after big name licences like the Matrix at all. As long as SEGA still looks after it loyal core or supporters (a lot of even die hard fans have had enough of SEGA of late).
Even I , who?ll stick up for, and put with them till the end. Have been finding it hard to sing SEGA praises of late.

Yes I know the Group is up to something big, and they should be on fire for the Next gen. And yes games like Spike Out (Can?t wait for this) and Shinning Neo, Sukura V should be great this year.
But it wouldn?t harm SEGA to port VC III and SP to the X-Box to please the fans that are crying out for ports. And those fans are the true SEGA fans.

Sammy is porting Rumble, when the hell can’t SEGA port VC or Out Run SP, casue if anything they’ll sell more copies

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Just a “correction”

That’s not “the capcom route”, it’s the “japanese arcades culture route” since games very often receive small updates and such to keep people coming back for more. It’s just that these upgrades don’t make it on consoles usually since they are not different enough from the original. Still, in the case of VF4: Evo they did an excellent job with the home console port and made it worth a purchase just as much as if it was a sequel. Improved graphics, two additional fighters, more moves for most all characters and all the new modes of play (gathering accessories for your fighters, doing the "world arcade championship thing etc). It’s as good as a sequel really and shouldn’t be put down just because the graphics are very close to the original VF4 (hell, how much better than that can the PS2 do anyway?!) and the title is not VF5 but VF4: Evo…

How often can you make a completely new title in a fighting game series anyway? These aren’t games that can be changed around all that much often in order to keep churning out complete sequels.

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[quote=“Al3xand3r”]Just a “correction”

That’s not “the capcom route”, it’s the “japanese arcades culture route” since games very often receive small updates and such to keep people coming back for more. .[/quote]

It’s the CAPCOM route. Since it was Capcom that started the update route in the first place,before then Nobody else in the arcades ever did updates to their games until Street Fighter 2:Champion Edition arrived.