Japan's hopefully not so "great fall"

Mature Discussion
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[quote=“Team Andromeda”]How ?

You can talk all you want about how you want a Job, if you don’t get up and look for one , make a CV and start applying for Jobs you’ll never get one, not matter how you may talk about it .

Talk is cheap and easy.[/quote]

That’s a separate point. I meant that change can come from recognizing how self-destructive some ideas are, and they really are. Overlooking them because they may benefit (a few) people in the short term is not the way forward.

We can agree to disagree. Half the world doesn’t need to suffer in poverty so that the other half can live in luxury. That is not to say that things are entirely either side’s fault, but the exploitation of controlled markets is self-evident. It has to end.

The amount of problems that could be solved with fair competition would be immense. Instead we’ll be waiting for the atmosphere to be toxic before someone decides to make money from it. The goal should be well-being, not profits.

That’s true. But you can’t shut off a demand for people when they built their whole lives on it, then not provide ways out when things change.

No they won’t need us to sell a lot of products (like cars), because they have their own bigger markets. They have more people, and if all the west does is consume and get fat, we won’t have any money to spend anyway. The balance of power has shifted.

No they didn’t mind control the free market. We cannot exonerate that of its responsibility.

10 000 jobs cut. What about them? Because demand is so low, it’s not really a viable path out for much of the bottom of the social ladder.

They are nothing. Relics of a bygone era. Regardless of the money it brings, what they symbolise is more detrimental to us all.

We lead ourselves.

No it’s not ok. Again, that is the problem with greed/the profit motive. But in business you have to stay competitive, and like you said, it’s the governments of those countries that control their workforces that are to blame.

But you keep saying it is up to them. But as long as they profit so much from it, nothing will change. NOTHING will change. Well not until they start selling to their own markets, then they’ll suddenly want everyone to have more money.

A homeless person will disagree. Money is a ticket to freedom. It will buy you a nice place in a safe place and let you travel and generally enable you to climb. I don’t agree with it, but those are the rules of this world of lies. Your true love may live in another country, or she may want a family. It all costs money.

I’ll come back in a century to see if you guys have evolved yet. >:)

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No it’s not its just talk . we can all talk and say we won to do this and that.

Walk around some of the streets in Glasgow, Inner London, The valleys in Wales and you’ll so find out that quite a lot of people don’t like in luxury at all.

I’m saying you can’t . Just making the point that living standards and the cost of living (and people’s wages) varies greatly in the UK , never mind the other parts of the World .

? They need to build Roads 1st and in a lot of countries that isn’t so easy , not just down to cost,s but issues with Land and environment.

? It’s not a free Market at all, everything with do is governed by law, even the markets

10,000 people tend to leave the Armed Forces each year , even with no cuts. You are wrong on this issue .

So you want people to lose their Jobs ?

Well then lets no Bring Up Japan .

How much rich people have died of Caner mate ? No amount of money can save people in a lot of cases.

It won’t buy you real friends or real love, only fake friends and fake love . If you truly love someone and I mean truly love someone money means nothing and we call have fake friends when times are good, real friends are friends for life and no amount of money can buy that .

Money makes life easier , but true love and true friendship is something that can’t be bought

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So if I say that such-and-such idea is bad because it leads to so-and-so, and I give you past examples, then no one would be dissuaded?

Of course they would. Any sane person can be convinced of how self-destructive things are if you open their eyes.

It’s a symptom of the same disease.

That is just a matter of time, especially if they truly westernized.

No one forced those banks to crash the market. They went into dodgy loans to stay competitive in an era seemingly of endless credit.

You’re trying to absolve them of blame when the banks themselves took us into this collapse. Even if there were no oversight at all, that makes them even more guilty.

Governments don’t create money. Businesses do.

Actually they do want to downsize/shrink the standing forces.

That’s not what I am saying. We shouldn’t be dependent on them. Especially not symbolically.

Japan went from being nuked to becoming a world leader. There are reasons for that worth embracing.

People need help to help themselves. Instead they are left to die.

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]It won’t buy you real friends or real love, only fake friends and fake love . If you truly love someone and I mean truly love someone money means nothing and we call have fake friends when times are good, real friends are friends for life and no amount of money can buy that .

Money makes life easier , but true love and true friendship is something that can’t be bought[/quote]

You may be right, but it’s not true for many people, and like it or not, money and the ability to earn it creates self-worth and self-respect.

Money leads to livelihoods and prosperity, and most of all, independence. The more people who are a part of that, the better for everyone, because people are paid to care and want to learn more to earn more etc. It’s huge source of motivation, and an undeniable driving force.

The more money we have, the more money we can spend on actually solving problems.

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I’m not saying its bad or wrong . But you can talk all you want, In the end you have to get up and do it . You know I can talk all I want about how I want to lose my beer Guts, but unless I take action all the Talk in the world isn’t going to change a thing

Well yes, but there’s plenty of people hard up in this country.

It depends on their demographics too. There’s a lot of factors and the West isn’t going to stay still - It’s going to expand its infrastructure

No I’m not , I saying to you like it’s all regulated and that failed . And it’s all too easy to blame the banks and the Bankers (who btw are also tax payers and workers ) When Governments were borrowing and spending with out a care in the world , and people were having up to 4 credit cards and spending and borrowing with out a care in the world them self’s.

If the UK had the Regulation to that see in the likes of Spain, Our banks wouldn’t have been in such a mess , and we learnt nothing for the Banking banking collapse in the likes of Japan

if they pay their way and make money for the country , who cares ?

And Japan also got billions and billions to rebuild . What about Germany we bombed the shit out of that, and they’re an industrial Power house, what about S. Korea or China ?

Japan has outsourced production just as much as the West and used cheap (or in your words slave labour) just as much as anyone in the West. So if want to embrace that model , what your problem with the West ?

You are left to die even if you have millions in the Bank. Money can not help you , if it’s terminal . There’s millionaire’s that can’t have kids of their own and not amount of money will every buy that happiness

What taggers on and fake friends - Sure they’ll be around when the money and power is there, but as soon as that goes they’ll leave .

No amount of money can every buy true love or a true friend - Someone that loves you or likes your friendship for who you are, not for what you have in your Bank Account . Money doesn’t buy that, that’s heart felt

It’s funny I see some people with tons of money in the bank and die single alone and unhappy (and leave millions to their cat or Dog) , yet you then see people with little money enjoying life to the full with a family and great set of friends .

I know what I rather have anyday of the week

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Yes it takes action, and yes it takes recognizing that there are termites infesting the foundation. The problem is people would sooner only care about themselves in the here and now because the plight of others or the future itself doesn’t effect them, UNLESS they can see how self-destructive it is, and even then it may be hard to sell.

That’s called being selfish and stupid. Shortsighted would be too kind a word.

At least recognize that something needs to be done, otherwise we return to “business as usual in America” and that will lead nowhere sooner or later.

It’s all leading to fewer and fewer ways out for the individual.

Those people aren’t stupid. It’s just a matter of time. I just hope they do westernize rather than evolve their politics of control. But then, maybe I have an ideal of what it means to be western when the reality is far different.

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]No I’m not , I saying to you like it’s all regulated and that failed . And it’s all too easy to blame the banks and the Bankers (who btw are also tax payers and workers ) When Governments were borrowing and spending with out a care in the world , and people were having up to 4 credit cards and spending and borrowing with out a care in the world them self’s.

If the UK had the Regulation to that see in the likes of Spain, Our banks wouldn’t have been in such a mess , and we learnt nothing for the Banking banking collapse in the likes of Japan [/quote]

Spain is a bad example considering their unemployment.

You still can’t blame the police when a criminal shoots someone. Somehow I don’t think that these multi-billion dollar banks were oppressed and forced into a life of crime.

Much of their wealth was inherited on the backs of their people. We shouldn’t be looking up to them at all.

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]And Japan also got billions and billions to rebuild . What about Germany we bombed the shit out of that, and they’re an industrial Power house, what about S. Korea or China ?

Japan has outsourced production just as much as the West and used cheap (or in your words slave labour) just as much as anyone in the West. So if want to embrace that model , what your problem with the West ?[/quote]

Again, they turned their economy around. It took time but they did it. Others haven’t. We’d rather live in Japan than North Korea.

They benefit from controlled markets which is wrong, but the winners at life play to win. I’m not defending that. I am saying to let them win in a positive environment that benefits us all. Make self-improvement/greed work for us. Because we all know that it can.

Ending slave labor would be a good start.

Money buys a better life. It will ensure that you need others less. I don’t see how you can deny it.

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]It’s funny I see some people with tons of money in the bank and die single alone and unhappy (and leave millions to their cat or Dog) , yet you then see people with little money enjoying life to the full with a family and great set of friends .

I know what I rather have anyday of the week[/quote]

Yeah they reap what they sew. That doesn’t mean you can’t be a good person and still benefit from being independent.

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[quote=“Team Andromeda”]That depends On the whole I would say yes but then one minute you’re told to have a aspirin a day , then not , we had a huge fuzz with the mmr jab. We’re told that smoking causes cancer , yet the Japanese seem to smoke like chimney and have nothing like the Cancer rates in UK .

And tbh I don’t trust genetically modified at all.[/quote]

These issues all need to be addressed on a case by case basis. How much evidence is there that each of them are reliable and safe? However, it’s not usually that the peer reviewed scientific consensus is wrong on an issue, but rather that there is less evidence than is preferable to go on.

My point is that we shouldn’t rule out genetically modified foods, just because they’re different from anything that’s come before. We have to look at the evidence for how safe these foods are (the same goes for non GM foods). It’s not a black and white issue, it’s not a matter of trusting all GM food or no GM food.

Can you link me to an article where there was scientific consensus that the feed was safe? I can understand the farmers saying it was safe (it’s not profitable to say otherwise), but scientific consensus is a separate thing.

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]You can do it in 2 ways, either ban Coal outright, or make the greener alternative so cheap you be completely mad no to use it.

Raising taxes don’t work as the Fuel and Alcohol duty show ; There’s now more people driving and drinking in the UK than ever before.[/quote]

On these two solutions, there are both problems.

If you banned coal outright, the system would suddenly stop in it’s tracks. Fazing out coal would be much less disastrous than banning it completely overnight.

Subsidising greener energy might work, but then, where does the money come from to do this? It seems some sort of tax would be required for the government to be able to afford to invest in this green energy. A simple tax on coal that went up each year would simply be an add on to the existing capitalist system - a way of coercing the market into action. This way, the market can decide what alternative energy sources to go for depending on what is the most cost effective. It encourages innovation.

Fuel and alcohol haven’t gone up in price so much that they’re unaffordable. If the tax was added to coal, 5% per year, within 10 years it would be considerably more expensive so that other options would become preferable.

I agree. I don’t think there was any disagreement here? (see my last post).

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]Well they should be, given they account for %25 of green houses gases now, never mind in the Future when the word gets richer and the earth’s Population goes up . Did the Talk mention Shipping at all ?

That’s never talked about even those Shipping is the biggest source of Greenhouses gases when it comes to Transport .[/quote]

The talk was mainly focused on coal and petrol. But I agree, these are all issues that need to be taken into consideration.

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Are you referring to tabloid sensationalism whereby any slight suggestion of a possibility by scientists is misread?or perhaps just cynically exploited?as presaging the next doomsday? In that case, you should know better than to trust anything reported in newspapers that appear to pride themselves more on their ability to generate asinine puns than on any kind of faith in the intelligence of their readership. Of course, keeping the masses in idiocy enables the advertisers to continue hawking terrible products, so this is probably the point at which I should applaud the economic genius of it all.

And as for the MMR debacle?there?s a can of worms that does not require opening, bar noting that Wakefield?s study was a veritable string vest and has, alongside his career in its entirety, been totally discredited. Slightly less offensive outbreaks of media-stirred hysteria surrounded Y2k and foot-and-mouth, which turned out to be (respectively) almost completely inconsequential and much less damaging than some sources predicted, and which in turn served to do little besides (respectively) elicit mass panic-buying and cause the probably needless death of thousands of farm animals (beyond those whom we already consume out of vanity, of course!)

Smoking does cause cancer. This cannot be denied. Even the cigarette companies have been forced to abandon their counterintelligence war, as will hopefully happen soon for the petroleum lobby and their associated climate change deniers (although their damaging effects are admittedly less direct but perhaps will prove to be more potent).

This is a complex issue that encompasses all sorts of facets?from the typically disgusting behaviour of companies such as Monsanto with things like ?terminator? seeds, to the probable event that a great deal more than you currently think of the food you consume has been genetically modified in at least some sense of the term. What should not be done is to dismiss the entire issue on a whim, but of course that?s the way everyone likes to look at things due to centuries of conditioning aimed at dividing and conquering! And what Solo said, for a much more considered response.

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The Japanese eat a lot more seafood etc than we do. In fact, we consume far less iodine (needed to fuel the thyroid) than we should which is why they iodized salt in the states, and yet, people STILL don’t consume enough.

That is directly linked to cancer prevention.

Greed is profiting from death as usual and especially from treating symptoms before diseases.

I think people take advantage of our ignorance.

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I’m not talking unemployment, I’m talking Bank regulation and on that front the Spanish were way ahead of the UK.

yes it takes both, that is my point.

People in the west aren’t stupid either mate , the likes of Silicon valley isn’t going to sit still now is it? . I think we in the West are still the World’s best inventor’s by a long way .

Lending Money is what Banks do , and you can’t have it just one way. Sure ‘some’ Banks were just stupid in their lending, but then so were governments and people . If you can’t afford to pay off 1 Credit card, that make it right to have another 3 or 4 against the Value of your house. Sure we can blame the banks, but it takes 2 to Tango.

I’m not saying we should. Just that in terms of what the Royals cost the country, compared to what they bring in, we get an ok deal out of it .

I’m sure we would if we were flatted and then had billions to rebuild . I think the Japanese market is a great and shining example of how to mass produce stuff work efficiency .

But the Japanese outsource Duke, just as much as the West

[quote]Money buys a better life. It will ensure that you need others less. I don’t see how you can deny it.
[/quote]

Money means a end to worry, but better life ? . I’m sure there’s Tribes around the world with no money what so ever, enjoying life more than some with millions inthe Bank. I rather be skint and have the friends I do any day of the week

So anyone that works hard and makes money is evil ?. I work in the NHS mate and see a lot of Doctors and consults that are more or less millionaires. These are bad people now are they, that should have no life no friends, no true love - Simply because they work hard and used their brains to help and save others .

C’Mon now Duke not everyone that is rich is evil .

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I don’t know mate. One day we’re told red meat is good for you and the next it’s linked to cancer .

I really don’t know what it safe to eat or not these days . On this issue I haven’t a clue what good or bad

I don’t like people playing God (but there again I see that all the time in the NHS) I think food should be natural and the animals allowed to have sex and reproduced naturally . I don’t like the idea of GM or more so cloning

Mate it was from the 80’s when the UK Chief veterinary officer said it was completely safe and we had Tory MP’s feeding their kids beef Burgers

But the Planet is saved.

You need to live in the UK a bit more, the cost of Fuel is a disgrace in this country .

How can you put a cost on saving the Planet?

I know, that’s the world we live in

And they lie the trouble . Farming accounts of 25% of gases and set to rocket as more people in Asia get rich and will want meat daily, and shipping is never factored in at all even though it’s the most polluting form of transport there is .

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With the MMR Jab you might have a case, with Aspirin no.

Should it read can help to cause cancer ?. because if smoking does cause cancer then everyone who smokes should have cancer by right , only that isn’t the case, and if it was half of Japan would be dead or in Hospital along with hundred of SEGA staff that smoke with the best of them .

Yet Japan has nothing like the cancer rate of the UK and has vastly increasing older population, Japan also loves their drink too, but all rights they should have some of the higher rates of Mouth cancer (which is linked to both smoking and drinking )

BTW I don’t like or agree with smoking at all .

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[quote=“Team Andromeda”]

Should it read can help to cause cancer ?. because if smoking does cause cancer then everyone who smokes should have cancer by right , only that isn’t the case, and if it was half of Japan would be dead or in Hospital along with hundred of SEGA staff that smoke with the best of them .[/quote]

Well, if you want to be picky about semantics?yes. My point was that the evidence for the carcinogenic potentialities of cigarette smoke is so bountiful as to make denial untenable. Yet, of course, the corporations peddling this pointless product did their level best to obscure and confuse the real issues for as long as they could until the science was lightyears beyond reasonable doubt. In the relatively educated west, at least! Since now they seem to focus on targeting poor and status-hungry people in disadvantaged neighbourhoods and/or developing countries. Utterly reprehensible. But what else should one expect?

Well, we have consensus on that!

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I think overall things are a bit better here still.

Great, let’s compete to stay ahead then without keeping other countries down. Then we can all evolve together.

But you don’t seem to think that other countries are being kept down by outside hunger for money.

The free market boasts about how it works best unregulated and will come home if taxed less etc, yet that mentality crashed the market, and instead of letting them fail like that mentality should dictate, tax payers bailed them out.

If you can prove that the government knew it was going to happen but did nothing, then you have a point, otherwise the blame lies entirely with the criminal who decided to shoot someone, not the police.

Then you are letting the country need them when we don’t need them at all. We’ll have to agree to disagree, but I doubt that the Royals care about you as much as you defend their right to exist.

Yeah so let’s end outsourcing by shutting that off at its source instead of never encouraging change just because it benefits us.

Other countries have received aid like you have said many times, but they never turned things around to become world leaders.

So yes, again, there is something worth looking up towards there.

Same difference.

Would you rather be homeless or living in a warm safe home?

Until the rules change, money is a ticket to opening many doors in life. It can help you change, improve etc.

I don’t like the rules, but they are what they are. Take away this stable environment and ability to earn etc, then let’s see how people feel about this.

It may not buy everything but it sure as hell is a key to independence. Unless you want your worth to be measured only in terms of pure biology, you should embrace what allows you to change as a person.

That’s not what I said. I said that everyone can benefit from the independence money brings. Every single person. Helping everyone become a part of that benefits society as a whole.

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It’s both. Food can have both advantages and disadvantages. Sugar gives you energy, but eating a lot of it rots your teeth.

We already started “playing God” went we developed modern medicine and were able to live past our natural lifespan of 30 or so. We should put aside personal feelings and look at the consequences. It’s not a black and white issue.

That’s quite different from scientific consensus.

Of course we should spend money if that will lead to saving the lives of people who will die from climate change. But you’ve got to be realistic about the reality of the economic situation too. Money can’t be pulled out of thin air. It has to come from somewhere, such as a tax.

I did not mean to imply that we should do nothing about it, but it’s matter of working out effective strategies in doing so. Boycotting the product might not be the best solution, as they still need some sort of job to survive, even if the working conditions aren’t ideal.

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I’m not being picky as so much pointing out that if was the case that if smoking causes cancer, then everyone who smokes would have cancer , only that isn’t the case . I’ve countless interviews with the SEGA staff smoking away with the best of them, Japan like much of Asia smokes quite heavily , yet they have noting like the Cancer rates of this country .

And btw , I don’t smoke never liked the habit and nor do I work for the Industry . So don’t tar (no pun intended) with that Brush thanks

Well yes if one drinks too much water you can die. But it’s seems we being told something different all the time, now Mobiles are again linked with Brain cancer

Well I accept that , I see it ever day in work . But I do have deep worries on stuff like cloning and messing around with DNA - That is too much playing GOD.

The UK UK Chief veterinary/Health officer will only go and act on what the UK leading scientists tell them, it’s one of the reasons the UK spent billions on tamiflu -Only for to be a complete waste of money and the experts proved very much wrong

Compared to the end of the word . Money shouldn’t be an issue at all .

No doubt they are, but if were to have tight Reg of the Banks like in Spain , Our Banks wouldn’t have been in such a mess .

We’ll invent and the east will copy the idea’s and mass produce them more cheaply and effectively; And not many do it better than the Japanese.

The you don’t know me, I hate the CAP and see it as nothing more than Europe keeping Africa farmers for being able to sell their Goods in he EU. It’s why I believe governments give so much AID to Africa, it’s cheaper and easier that opening our Markets to Africa (which is the real way to grow their economy)

John Redwood and lots of other all predicted the market would crash and that Government borrowing and House Market was going to burst . We learnt nothing from the Japan Banking crisis or The Finnish Banking Crisis

It’s nothing new at all.

Answer me this Duke If you were American why else would you come to the UK. The USA had Snow, Sun, the best theme parks , is far cheaper and the nicest people all in one country .

What do we have?, Shit weather , rip off prices, shit transport, and nothing like as good Theme parks , we do have a bit of History, Culture and the Royals and that seems to be good enough for the Americans

What a life we no friends no true love . There’s quite a few rich people that die alone

Given our Benefit system , people really shouldn’t be homeless in the 1st place

You said

Now not everyone that is rich is evil , and quite a lot worked dam hard to get where they do and imo deserver all the riches they do (not all but a lot) . I’ve no problems with Jackie Chan, Yu Suzuki, Sepultura, Doctors or Consultants , Bill Gates being millionaires at all

They’ve worked hard to get where they got and use their talents to help the world (in their own ways )

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The Japanese have better diets than we do imo. That is linked to cancer prevention like I said. People are starting to wake up more to that now (better late than never, right? Lol).

They needed to fail on their own. The government never forced them into it.

The money making machine will do what it has to do to remain competitive because it’s built on growth (that doesn’t mean I agree with it having no ethics). Only failure will stop it. Something that actually works will be reborn from those ashes. Government intervention has to be done carefully because if the free market knows it won’t be punished for mistakes, it won’t strive to better itself as much.

The point still stands: did the government force the free market (which was the actual source of all the money) into crashing the economy? You should place blame where it belongs.

Good. Then someone will always try to stay ahead.

Then we agree again. Aid is misused imo.

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]John Redwood and lots of other all predicted the market would crash and that Government borrowing and House Market was going to burst . We learnt nothing from the Japan Banking crisis or The Finnish Banking Crisis

It’s nothing new at all.[/quote]

The free market was still the source of the problem. That was the source of the fictional money.

Why do you want to hold the government to blame so much?

One day there will be a crash, and there will be no one to bail anyone out. It’s really inevitable for the current system unless you really want to be dependent on a central authority that lacks the competition of the free market.

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]Answer me this Duke If you were American why else would you come to the UK. The USA had Snow, Sun, the best theme parks , is far cheaper and the nicest people all in one country .

What do we have?, Shit weather , rip off prices, shit transport, and nothing like as good Theme parks , we do have a bit of History, Culture and the Royals and that seems to be good enough for the Americans[/quote]

I would stay in America. England’s biggest redeeming quality is that the people are quite liberal compared to other places. But you know, becoming a shadow of our former selves is a choice.

You can be both independent and happy.

You’d think so.

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]Now not everyone that is rich is evil , and quite a lot worked dam hard to get where they do and imo deserver all the riches they do (not all but a lot) . I’ve no problems with Jackie Chan, Yu Suzuki, Sepultura, Doctors or Consultants , Bill Gates being millionaires at all

They’ve worked hard to get where they got and use their talents to help the world (in their own ways ) [/quote]

The more social mobility, the better. It benefits everyone.

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[quote=“Team Andromeda”]

I’m not being picky as so much pointing out that if was the case that if smoking causes cancer, then everyone who smokes would have cancer , only that isn’t the case . I’ve countless interviews with the SEGA staff smoking away with the best of them, Japan like much of Asia smokes quite heavily , yet they have noting like the Cancer rates of this country .

And btw , I don’t smoke never liked the habit and nor do I work for the Industry . So don’t tar (no pun intended) with that Brush thanks[/quote]

It looks as though you completely overlooked my previous post. Handy hints: ?carcinogenic potentialities?, ?we have consensus on that?, etc.

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I haven’t been following the mobile/cancer issue too closely, but we should be sceptical of any media reports without reviewing all the evidence. This article, for example, states that the radiation from cell phones is a possible cause of cancer. Reviewing the article, it appears this is less certain than the evidence for smoking leading to cancer, for example. There is more evidence for the latter. On all these issues, there is a continuum of evidence, it’s never black and white. The same applies to remaining with the status quo, e.g. cancer being linked to red meat. Progressing forward, or staying with the status quo can be dangerous in both cases. The more evidence we have, the more of an informed decision we can make. It’s all within the domain of science to provide the best evidence possible.

This is quite different from being told different things all the time (e.g. being told falsehoods). It’s more a matter of new light be shone on a subject that we didn’t have before.

You missed out the first sentence of my paragraph in the quoted text. I said “We already started “playing God” went we developed modern medicine and were able to live past our natural lifespan of 30 or so.”

I’m going to need more to go on. Links to information about what was actually said, etc. It’s too easy to misinterpret what was said via second hand information.

Again, you deliberately left off the important part of my comment! Straight afterwards I said: “Money can’t be pulled out of thin air. It has to come from somewhere, such as a tax.” Discussing this is waste of time if you’re not even going to make an effort to represent my position correctly! :anjou_sigh:

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I know and that’s the point . If smoking does cause cancer then everyone who smokes should have it, no matter what they eat.

Maybe we should carry a warming if you want to smoke eat lots of fresh food and sea food ?

Why’s that, becasue we all love our Mobiles ?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/health-news/2011/06/01/mobile-phones-linked-to-cancer-in-world-health-organisation-report-86908-23171427/

I don’t see us using Plants as playing GOD. Now cloning people is playing GOD and imo asking for trouble .

It’s from the 80’s so they’ll be not much on the Interweb

It can you know, you just print more , which I gather we inthe UK and USA have done the past year , but that was put to saving the banks and Economy rather than the Planet.

Duke you do know what a structural deficit is I hope ?

Why I would put to you that’s the reason why R&D is not out sourced

Yep spot on .

Because they borrowed with the best of them and never put any money away in Reserve .

me too , but the USA doesn’t have the history compared to of us and that helps to bring the American over

And some can be poor and happy . In the end I’l rather have mates and a Soul mate anyday of the week

It does, which is why I have no trouble with people who get rich and worked hard to get there, even the likes of Simon Cowell. My only trouble is the rich seem be able to get away with stuff that the common person wouldn’t be that with taking drugs, drink driving and stuff like that .

I really hate that side of things

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We can’t let ourselves need the Royals.

Yes I do. Sadly.

Yes it is and it is still wrong, but it is what it is: being competitive. That can be a very healthy thing under the right circumstances.

They were doing only what was logical at the time in keeping up with the demands of growth.

It boils down to a simple question: who was creating the wealth? Business or the government? You already know what the answer is.

I’m not saying that can’t be true, but when it’s a matter of survival people will side with money still. Better to help everyone find ways to earn it.

Indeed. So let’s create more social mobility instead of benefiting from less.