Final Fantasy XII

Other Games
1

I have to be completely honest - I’m quite impressed with FFXII. Granted, I’ve only logged in about 8 hours into the game, but with only a few exceptions, it’s been a fairly compelling experience.

First off, my complaints. I hate the main character design. The supporting cast isn’t too bad, but the main character looks like a baroque version of Disney’s Aladdin. I don’t know what Japanese anime artists’ obsession with showing male midriffs is, but it doesn’t fly over here. Also, the way they’ve drawn his face, it makes it look like he’s either wearing white eye shadow or there’s constantly a spotlight on him or something. I know they are just emulating the way the character was drawn by the artist, but it just doesn’t work for me.

In addition, gameplay balancing. For example, while the Hunt system provides a nice set of MMO-esque side quests, there is little to no indication of how powerful the creature you are hunting is. I’ve completed 4 hunts so far and I was able to finisht he first two just with my main character alone, but any attempt to kill the last two without a party in tow ended in absolute failure. In a game like WoW, for example, when you accept a quest, you can tell the difficulty based on the color of the quest name. No such breakdown in FFXII, which makes things frustrating.

Also, some monsters that you randomly come across in the outdoor areas can kill you in a single hit. There’s a dinosaur-like creature that isn’t KOS, but out of curiosity, I tried attacking it. I was dead in less than half a second. And, of course, this being a console JRPG, save points are few and far between, so I had to reboot quite a ways back. Again, there’s very little indication as to the relative strength of the monster (the manual says that the monster name should appear as a different color, but I haven’t noticed any differences. Maybe I’m just looking in the wrong spot.)

But, all that being said, I have to say that for a Final Fantasy game, it certainly doesn’t feel like a Final Fantasy game (perhaps the fact that it’s the Vagrant Story team that built it that made it feel significantly different). The active combat system and the Gambit system are surprisingly elegant, and the character building system is much more satisfying than FFX’s Sphere Grid system. The characters are actually likable in this version, as well, and while the main character is the usual hot-headed youth, he actually shows signs of logic and sanity, unlike his predecessors.

It’s missing the misguided angst and faux-philosophy (so far, at least) that so plagued FFX, and the change to the battle system makes the overall gameplay more engaging, so I actually must say that this is the first FF game I’ve enjoyed since FF7. So far, at least.

While I certainly haven’t been a proponent of the series since FF7, this has restored my faith (again - this is only based on impressions of the eary game, as the game may very well deteriorate into the usual trite cliches later on) in Square as an RPG maker.

2

Final Fantasy XII @ Mega64.com … those guys can make me laugh at a game I’ve never even played.

3

Are you serious? In my opinion this is the worst FF ever created. If you play through the entire game you’ll find that the characters are lame, devoid of emotion and lack any kind of back-story, which doesn’t help the player’s attachment to them.

Basically the battle system while new and refreshing, is completely ruined by the extensive amount of time it takes to level your characters up. Seriously it can take hours upon hours of level grinding just to obtain enough experience to defeat a boss and advance the story, which brings me to another horrible downside.

The story is ridiculously horrible! Never have I played through a FF with such a horrible story as this one. It lacked creativity, emotion, and in my view not very compelling at all. Let me sum it up: (NO SPOILERS don’t worry)

-Political nonsense, (save the kingdom blah blah blah OMG countries are at war, what’s new?)

-Characters speak in old English babble that is sometimes confusing and hard to understand which makes things worse story-wise.

-Conclusion: I disliked this game.

4

As opposed to…? Now, before I go off, I have to preface everything I am about to say with the fact that, as I mentioned above, I’m only a few hours into the game so my opinion may change.

That being said, when is hours and hours of backstory a necessity to good character development? Hell, using an example from everyone’s favorite game on these boards: look at Edge. How much time was devoted to his backstory? Nearly none. And so far, the characters appear to lack teenage-y angst, which has been overly present in every FF since 7. While I may become disappointed if there isn’t at least an emotional peak at the game’s climax, so far, I’m actually finding it refreshing that you don’t have characters talking aloud about how their father didn’t love them etc.

I’ll keep this in mind. The gameplay balancing is already starting to worry me (as mentioned above), so I will be careful.

[quote=“legaiaflame”]The story is ridiculously horrible! Never have I played through a FF with such a horrible story as this one. It lacked creativity, emotion, and in my view not very compelling at all. Let me sum it up: (NO SPOILERS don’t worry)

-Political nonsense, (save the kingdom blah blah blah OMG countries are at war, what’s new?)[/quote]

Again, as compared to what? The story in FFX was pseudo-philosophical tripe and the presentation of the story in FF8 was so utterly insipid that I couldn’t play past the first disc. FF7 was also extremely pretentious, but it was the first mass market RPG that tried to bring the genre to a new level (PDS is the other one), so I give it a bit of a free pass.

Not every story has to be about The Meaning of Life ™, as every other FF seems to try. So far, it appears to simply be an adventure story that doesn’t try to overreach. Again, my opinion may change as more of the story is revealed, but thus far, I’m impressed with how dialed back it is. For example, SPOILERS!!! I’m impressed with the fact that Vaan has forgiven Basch for his perceived crimes, and we’ve just only gotten out of the first dungeon. In previous FFs, they would have milked that angst to the point of absurdity and the two characters would have had some sort of revelation, 15 hours past the point where I would have stopped caring (Tidus, I’m looking at you!)

Did you feel the same way when watching Lord of the Rings? I don’t find it any more difficult to follow than that. I find it infinitely more interesting than the vast majority of pointless techno-babble that you see in a lot of sci-fi themed games and/or anime…

5

I can respect every angle your coming from. I guess it just wasn’t my cup of tea.

I can see that Edge in Panzer Dragoon Saga didn’t have much of a back-story, but the story and atmosphere made up for it, unlike FF12. FF12 just didn’t feel right…That being said It’s just my opinion, but once you beat the game tell me overall what you thought about it.

-Did you like it?

-On a scale of 1 to 10 how would you rate it’s story?

-Were the characters really that full of emotion and compassion(Vaan was pretty bland to me, having not much if any kind of serious role in the story)?

-Did the battle system totally piss you off to the point you had to use a cheat device just to finish the game? If not expect to spend well over 100 hours leveling your characters up. Does that sound appealing to you?

6

[quote=“Abadd”]

As opposed to…? Now, before I go off, I have to preface everything I am about to say with the fact that, as I mentioned above, I’m only a few hours into the game so my opinion may change.[/quote]

Sorry about that, I realize you are fairly early in the game, but I couldn’t help but state my opinion of the game.

7

Yeah, I agree re: Edge. If the overall presentation feels complete enough and the characters’ personalities are well-developed enough, you don’t need backstory. You should be able to figure out their general backstory well enough by their reactions to various events, etc.

But I will certainly let you know if my initial impressions hold up. And I agree - the main character is certainly the least interesting of everyone so far (though infinitely more appealing to me than Tidus).

8

The entire Final Fantasy series is total garbage. I’d say that the ONLY improvement introduced in FFXII is the fact that the music is no longer made by Nobuo Uematsu – and it certainly shows - then again, that’s not saying much, considering the soundtrack is below average. But anything is better than Uematsu’s work – anything.

I would definitely have to say that the game’s biggest fault is the story, which makes no god damn sense whatsoever. But this is Square we’re talking about here; when have they ever made a good story in ANY of their games? It’s Square’s achilles heel, I tell you.

9

I’ve played even less of FFXII than Abadd, but from what I’ve seen/played it looks like a step in the right direction at the least.

However, it wasn’t enough to tempt me to buy the game or take the time to play through it. I simply don’t have the luxury of playing through any “great” 35+ hour RPG these days; it has to be something extra special to get me to commit that much time to a single game. Mass Effect will (hopefully) be the next game to fulfill this requirement.

10

Well, all I have to say is: I loved FF10, I think it’s the best FF in my opinion. We finally got a main character who wasn’t depressed, and full of life and energy. I don’t know why so many people dislike Tidus? He certainly knows how to pick out stylish clothing…(Sarcasm),

You really began to care about what happened to the characters as you advanced through the game, while at the same time being drawn into the beautiful world of Spira.

After playing such a great game then playing FF12, it’s like SquareEnix kicked me in the Ass!!! :anjou_sigh:

11

Really? I thought Tidus was one of the more insipid characters Square had thrown in a game…

SPOILER!

The fact that, for instance, the consequences of the Final Summon escaped him until about 15-20 hours into the game was unbelievable. Every time the Final Summon was mentioned, everyone turned all morose and he was at a loss for why. As the player, I realized what was going to happen after the first or second mention of the Final Summon, and yet it took Tidus and additional 5-10 hours (my memory is a little fuzzy) to figure it out.

And no angst? What about the whole “I’m angry at my father” bit? Completely overdone and, to me at least, it never felt genuine. I had so much trouble believing the Yuna/Tidus storyline that I simply gave up somewhere after the marriage sequence (where she was going to wed Seymour, or whatever his name was). It felt like watching a bad anime…

12

Well, certain themes might have been overdone, but not “horribly overdone”. What games haven’t overdone certain themes, while still being immersive and intriguing?

Ahem, PDS, for instance: Edge’s captain (father figure) is killed, so he’s out for revenge ect. What happened in between negated that overused story element.

Shenmue: Ryo’s father is killed so he’s out for revenge LOL. The game was new and original introducing new an creative concepts.

I guess what I’m trying to say is: it’s not easy coming up with an entirely new, fresh story and gameplay system that no one would have ever expected. few games have managed to do this. ICO and SOTC might be the only few to ever achieve this.

That doesnt mean these were necessarily bad games. Their content and creativity overruled their cliched circumstances. I’m just using those mentioned games as lame examples, but sometimes the genuine emotion and feelings a character portrays can make up for certain flaws in their character.

To me, the characters felt real, and likable even if Tidus couldn’t get with the program. I had been so sick of playing all those other Final Fantasy games and quite frankly, most other RPG’s with emo characters. Tidus was a refreshing change. His awkwardness and unpredictable actions set him apart from the rest of the party as he tried to make sense of what was happening around him.

Later in the game he slowly began to change, (matured I should say) and really developed as a character. At least that’s what I think.

13

Post is laden with SPOILERS for Ico, SOTC, and FFX!!!

Nothing against the theme. In fact, tension (of some sort) between the protagonist and his/her father/parent figure is an important part of the hero story in many occasions. Everything from Hercules to Star Wars has similar themes of parent/child issues (it’s a prevalent condition that most people can relate to).

The issue is how that particular theme/cliche is handled. Take, for example, Edge’s quest for revenge. He is consumed by the revenge, but does not constantly exposit on why he is angry at his parent figure for abandoning him, how much he hates him, etc. It is a driving force and he treats it as such, without the unnecessary brooding.

Hell, even Ico and SOTC’s themes weren’t original. You can look to something like Dark Crystal to see many parallels with Ico’s theme or any number of stories in which the hero sacrifices himself for love to find parallels in SOTC. But, again, it was the way in which these themes are presented. There is a saying in design: you’re not done until you have nothing left to take away. Ico and SOTC approached their stories with precision and minimalism, whereas FF tends to try and milk it for all it’s worth.

In FFX’s case, everything is heavy-handed. The father/antagonist character’s name is SIN. Seriously. I know the name is “Shin” in Japanese, but they could have come up with something a little less obvious. Even if it wasn’t their intention to infuse that meaning into the character (which I have a hard time believing), they should have changed the name to something else.

Whata bout Auron, the walking deus ex machina? He seemed to know everything Tidus needed to know, but only told him at points in the story where it would have the most (mela)dramatic effect. And Tidus would always react as expected, right on cue. Like the time when he learned Yuna’s potential fate for performing the Final Summon? My god, could that have been any more overdone? He throws his hands into the air and shouts and puts on a performance that I was later reminded of when I watched Star Wars Ep 3 (when Vader shouted, “Nooooooo!”).

Again, this is my personal opinion, as I know everyone has different tastes, but just based on the literature, games, movies, etc that I’ve been exposed to, I’ve seen the same story done much more effectively and without the preachy overtones.

14

I stopped playing FF after 8 and never went back lol

15

Well, lets see how FF13 (unlucky number) turns out. I’m sure it won’t have a new, creative and interesting story that hasn’t already been done before.

I can tell you that with confidence. SquareEnix is really going downhill story-wise. After FF12 I just don’t know anymore. I bet the only thing FF13 will have going for it is it’s amazing graphics. If I’m proven wrong, I’ll be extremely surprised.

16

FF13 is being built by the same team that did FFX (unlike FFXII, which was done by a different team, as I stated earlier). It may suit your tastes, but I will likely not be that interested…

17

I tried playing FFXII again and I’m just going to give up.It feels like a chore.There isn’t one thing that excites me about this game yet a lot of people seem to like it.The character design is typical “japanese emo thingy” the combat system isn’t very fun and the story isn’t very entertaining either.Also I find the music quite irritating.

I liked some of the architecture and artstyle at times (such as the smoking man who asked you for the suncrystal) but there isn’t really much in here to keep me playing and that’s sad because I wanted to finish a FF game for once in my life.

Or maybe it’s just the english voice acting which I find onbonxious.There’s no life in the characters and at least if they were japanese I could distance myself a bit and not take them for the clich? characters they really seem.I mean how long before you get the feel there’s a love affair at some point between the main character and Penelo?

18

That’s exactly what I mean, the characters in FF12 have no feeling, no charm.

There is no love affair between Vaan and Penelo. They obviously are a couple, yet Vaan may as well treat her like an inanimate object.

19

That dinosaur is a level 30 creature. Creatures that are too strong for your level appear in red. But if you have the Libra skill, you can see exactly how strong the creature is.

Final Fantasy XII seems to have a heavy emphasis on the monster hunting and tracking down “marks” and “rares” and less so on character development.

20

[quote=“Kadamose”]The entire Final Fantasy series is total garbage. I’d say that the ONLY improvement introduced in FFXII is the fact that the music is no longer made by Nobuo Uematsu – and it certainly shows - then again, that’s not saying much, considering the soundtrack is below average. But anything is better than Uematsu’s work – anything.

I would definitely have to say that the game’s biggest fault is the story, which makes no god damn sense whatsoever. But this is Square we’re talking about here; when have they ever made a good story in ANY of their games? It’s Square’s achilles heel, I tell you.[/quote]

Good in what way? Original? Originality doesn’t sell. We saw that with John Doe (how people could prefer to have their eyes glued to soap operas than that work of art is a mystery even to me).

Recycling those universal themes (love (unrequited or triangles etc), struggle, war etc) will always be the keys to selling stories, because they speak to the fundamental human condition.

Do correct me if I am wrong of course.