FFVII I got bored with before completing it, which is a shame because I was enjoying the story and teh characters.
I think Panzer Saga has more depth of story from all that is implied and drawn from previous games. Any fanboy would’ve become giddy with excitement when they ran into Shelcoof again and experienced the satisfaction of destryong the wings that you missed in Panzer Zwei.
I like the graphics in FFVII, as I like them in Saga, but I would say Saga’s has better art overall.
What I DO HATE about FFVII though is the combat. It’s frustrating and boring. Some battles will involve one character constantly reviving the others because the game has allowed you access to enemies way more powerful than you. Saga never threw you into the deep end and the difficulty of its combat was rarely not having a high enough level but more that you employed the wrong strategy.
Saga plays better and is more fun, that is why it beats FFVII.
Eh, FFVII was a rather easy game to be honest, the only time I can imagine a player able to reach an enemy too tough for him is maybe at a boss, and then all he’d have to do is retread a bit and level up a couple times, then go back to the boss. It sounds boring but personally I never even had to do it so I imagine if anyone had to resort to that it wouldn’t be for long at all. Perhaps you hadn’t properly figured out the use of materia and how they can enhance the characters? It’s quite a simple but great system…
The only honestly too tough enemies I can remember in FFVII are those three or so bonus bosses (weapons were they called?) which can kick your ass regardless of level. Which makes sense for them to do so as they were simply not-so-easy-to-find bonus bosses to give players something more to find and do. Or maybe the later levels of the battle arena mini game at the Gold Saucer. Which again makes sense as that’s all it is about, difficulty… And you don’t die if you lose in it so it’s all good.
As for Saga, well, it by no means had a perfect battle system since it was piss easy. It was my first RPG of the type and I never even died in the game but once, ON PURPOSE, just because I wanted to see what the Game Over screen was like. That’s far from a balanced game if you ask me…
I’ve only ever died the once in Saga too. I was low on health, and poisoned, but it never occured to me to heal because the game had been so ludicrously easy I hadn’t even considered that I might actually die!
The battle system for PDS is unique, interesting and fun - but never challenging.
Saga’s battle system is indeed easy, but it’s so fun. I don’t even care about the random battle aspect. Just entering a battle to see what new and unique monster you’ll see next just makes it all the more intriguing! 
I love the battle system. It gives you wider berth to be more strategic with the ability to move around an enemy. Plus the Dragon Morph system is amazing because you can really play around with different strategies like having a strong attack for a few enemies then changing into perhaps a Dragon with stronger defense and choose your style and strategy.
[quote=“Kadamose”]
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]FF7 is utter tripe imo ,
What any RPG’s needs is a good story and a set of characters you care about, FF7 had nither.
Its along with MGS II the most overrated game of all time . Lunar is what you call a RPG and still remains the best RPG I’ve played[/quote]
Lunar the Silver Star or Lunar II: Eternal Blue? If you chose the former, I would definitely have to disagree…the game was cliched ‘tripe’. Lunar II, on the hand, had a very deep storyline, and two very satisfying endings. Lunar II was what Lunar the Silver Star should have been, but didn’t even come close. Good stuff overall, though - Lunar II definitely ranks up in the top 5 RPGs of all time, but certainly isn’t #1 (we all know what game that spot is reserved for)[/quote]
I’m on about Luanr the Silver Star , for me the best story and cast of characters in any RPG.Eternal Blue was ace but the story wasn’t as good same goes for the music.
Don’t know what happned to the Saturn/PS ports they were pretty dire with Lunar II look better onthe Mega CD that the Sat/PS ports .
I love SAGA, but Lunar onthe Mega CD is by far the best RPG I’ve ever played
It is a fantastic feature, but it’s all wasted because the game never makes you use it!
Don’t get me wrong - my biggest gaming turn-off is random difficulty spikes and unfair AI - but PDS takes it too far the other way. The only game I’ve seen that gives even more player concessions are the Sakura Taisen series - where enemies actually hold back if they might kill you 
As for Lunar… I have them both, and found them to be rather twee. They aren’t bad games, but they’re too syrupy for me, and I love Grandia.
After I posted my post about the morph system I realized I couldn’t remember when you were allowed to morph the Dragon. Could you morph at any time you wished? I remember not being able to morph during battle but I can’t remember whether you could morph during flight through areas.
You can morph during flying areas and in battle, though it costs you one gauge charge to do so. I don’t think you can morph during walking sequences.
This discussion about Saga’s battle system brings up a psychological curiosity for me. There’s not much challenge in getting through the game that’s for sure, but what kept me interested was the option of challenging yourself to get the “excellent” rating vs every enemy. It’s very much in line with how most Sonic games are through the majority of the game, simple to progress but challenging to get the high scores and bonuses.
It happens to be part of why the Sonic games have never really hooked me, somehow the lack of immediate resistance in too many places makes me lose interest. Yet clearly some people that love Sonic may not be so hooked by Saga’s battles, possibly for the same reason?
For myself I guess it works in a game that’s more long term and narative, it let’s me enjoy the story itself without getting stressed and I can feel in control of the amount of tension and resistance I’m experiencing. Or something.
I agree that it’s important that the focus of an RPG stays on the plot and player enjoyment - I have no desire to spend an entire day repeating the same boss over and over until I’m finally the right level and/or have bought enough healing potions along for the ride.
I feel though that PDS has little reward for “Excellent”'ing the enemies as compensation of its lack of difficulty, and it’s fantastic battle system is let down by the developers because it never feels as though there is any possible outcome other than you winning.
Looking at Sega’s form at the moment it maks me apprehesiv if they decided to do another PANZER DRAGOON RPG and it took the FF7 route. I mean why create an in depth RPG when the market are just gonna ignore it? So far in japan at least TEARS and NEO have done quite well for themselves and that depth is lacking in those titles IMHO.
I sort of agree with you Kimimi, in that I wish there had been some sense of danger more often. I added the challenge of not using any consumables, and indeed I think the game would have been perfect if there weren’t any consumables in the first place. It’s just more in keeping with the self contained ultimate weapon backstory of the games anyway.
I never really used items either… The only time I ever felt any sort of urgency was when I had to shoot down that missile thing in a certain amount of time… It was because of the countdown timer I guess, still I had lot’s of time remaining when I won that battle.
Well, a good game in my opinion should constantly feel “pleasantly challenging”, in other words, be challenging(up to the point where you scratch through a boss with 1HP remaining even), but not through methods such as the boss being too high of a level for you at the moment, or because he had a super move up his sleeve for which you only get 0.1 second to get out of the way because it’s one of those rare unblockable supers in the game. If I die in a game I prefer to die knowing it was my own fault. Not because of a case of cheater AI or a boss of superstellar levels.
[quote=“Pedro The Hutt”]
but not through methods such as the boss being too high of a level for you at the moment, or because he had a super move up his sleeve for which you only get 0.1 second to get out of the way because it’s one of those rare unblockable supers in the game. If I die in a game I prefer to die knowing it was my own fault. Not because of a case of cheater AI or a boss of superstellar levels.[/quote]
What about Grig Orig? I found that battle really really hard and frustrating and when I saw I hadn’t even destroyed it I felt an empty space inside where a cutscene showing the destruction of that goddamn ship should have been.
I love the Atolm Dragon battles on PDS. I dont know why really but I really enjoy them, especially the music.
[quote=“Kadamose”]Here’s my top 5 RPGs:
- Panzer Dragoon Saga (Sega Saturn) (S-Rank elitism!)
- Ys IV: The Dawn of Ys (PC-Engine) (Unbeatable soundtrack)
- Lunar II: Eternal Blue (Sega CD) (great endings)
- Emerald Dragon (PC-Engine) (great soundtrack and wonderful story)
- Cosmic Fantasy 4 Part I and II (PC-Engine) (like Ys and PDS, it has an epic story - good stuff)[/quote]
the ys games were only released in japan right??
