That’s a good point.
Xbox has several examples. Would DOA3 have sold so much if It wasn’t a lauch title? No. Take a look to DOA2 sales on PS2 what had larger user base. Tecmo knew how to sell it: tons of hi-res shots to show how good its graphics were/are (xbox’s showcase), tons of sex-appeal and there wasn’t any other fighting game at launch/near future (PS2 has Tekken 4, Virtua Fighter 4, Soul Calibur 2, etc.). And Project Gotham? It’s a very solid Xbox franchise nowadays. Even Oddworld got some good sales.
Release next Panzer game at launch of nex-gen consoles would be a good move to me. It would be a very good nex-gen graphics’ showcase (hype), exploit the momentum (more hype) and be the only one RPG/adventure game (tons of potential sales). Moreover, Microsoft could use it to be Xbox 2’s image in Japan like DOA3: japanese rpg/adventure, critically-aclaimed series (good image), excelent graphic showcase, etc.
The other hand, Sega could release it on Xbox but the risk is larger IMO if they don’t release it late 2004/very early 2005… And if development hasn’t already started, there is no chance (V_V). Sure, the user base will be really big but the Xbox momentum will have past. Larger user don’t garantee more sales and the nex-gen consoles and their upcoming software with “amazing nex-gen graphics” (typical casual thought) will be everywhere late 2005/Early 2006. “Everybody” will talk about them. Take a look to FF IX. Similar case except that Panzer series don’t have any popularity to confront that big problem. Next Panzer can’t be allowed to be overlooked. It will need hype, much hype.
Do you think the larger part of new buyers played PD Ein and read PDO’s Encyclopaedia?
Well obviously that would be a nice move to make a panzer title at launch of a next console, but that doesn’t mean that if they tried again on X-box it would be a failoure…X-box lacks a good RPG, sudeki being the only thing that looks like it’s gonna be worth getting, a PD RPG could sell good on that system… Or even Gamecube, I don’t think there’s any serious RPG on it either, is there? And I’m sure PS2 owners would welcome a new RPG after all the FF games they have been through… It’s all a matter of marketting I guess… The current consoles are deffinitelly capable of having a great PD RPG on them… So maybe in a few years we will have consoles with maybe double power…so what ? In 10 years there will also be another generation of consoles even more powerful does that meab they should wait for those next? There’s no reason to ditch current consoles, especially the X-box seeing as that’s where they are getting their money now from, so why not make a great RPG on one of them to get even more money… I don’t think these consoles will die as soon as people think, especially the X-box.
If the company that is making Sudeki is giving it a shot (sudeki isnt an established franschise either as its the first game) I don’t see a reason for Sega not doing the same thing… They should have started making an RPG as soon as Orta was done…
RPGs with branching paths are not unheard of (Baldur’s Gate 2 is a good example of a game with good and evil routes through the early stages of the game, though every decision you make can have different outcomes). However, such gameplay elements are difficult to implement when given a huge gameworld. It’s much easier to have a linear main plot with some element of choice, and many unrelated side quests that serve to create the illusion of a larger world. When considering a branching storyline the creators must think ahead to the long term consequences of your choices, which isn’t easy.
Why are people discussing the X-Box 2 as if the X-Box is dead already btw? The console still has much life left. And wouldn’t Microsoft have some say in whether or not Sega decides to develop a new Panzer title for the X-Box?
Huh? Explain. How does “the type of plot” of a game (nevermind the fact that the plot doesn’t even exist yet, therefore cannot be confined to any specific genre, or game type, for that matter) limit what kind of game it is? You could take PDS and turn it into a KOTOR style game if you wanted to. You could do the same for FF. You’d just have to flesh out the world more, add more side stories, etc. It’s a different style of storytelling, sure, but it’s not an alien format.
As for shooters, name one shooter (I’m not talking about FPS, etc.) that is popular nowadays.[/quote]
The thing with KOTOR is that the game hasn’t got a plot.Personally I think that the more personality NPC’s have the better!
Oh and popular shooters don’t exist cause they aren’t made anymore : that doens’t mean that they aren’t good.
I never said shooters weren’t good… people just don’t buy them anymore. And yes, shooters are made. Silpheed on PS2. Defender on multiple platforms. Not to mention Gradius V and R-Type Final coming out soon. And let’s not forget the ultimate: Ikaruga on GC. As you can see, they are still being made. But do they sell? No. Why? Because only hardcore gamers play them anymore. They. Just. Don’t. Sell.
And as for KOTOR, have you actually played the game? The NPCs have more personality in that game than in most other RPGs I’ve played. And the character development isn’t forced down your throat. It allows the players to find out as much about the NPCs as you want. But, even without each character history, they all have their own personalities, and they even have banter going back and forth, depending on who you have selected in your party.
And the story is one of the best in recent memory. It has a very strong central story, but is supported by a vast variety of subquests, and character development (let’s face it, folks… it’s nearly impossible to get a 40-50 hour narrative going with just plot development… you need the character development in there to fill up the time).
Oh, and as for Xbox vs. Xbox 2… I’m just playing devil’s advocate, here. I’m just explaining why Xbox 2 would even be a possibility. No, Xbox is not dead. It’s still going on strong. However, when Xbox 2 comes out, I wouldn’t be surprised to see MS shift all its attention to Xbox 2. Think about it… wouldn’t? You know that PS3 will be just around the corner, and you know you gotta get as much momentum going as possible. Would you split your efforts?
As for whether or not MS has any say as to what platform Sega develops for… not much. MS can ask, but they can’t command a company to do a game on a specific platform, make it exclusive, etc.
I agree with Abadd, KOTOR is an excellent example of an involving world that is essentially a linear plot, very similar to BG and BG2, undoubtedly 2 of the RPG greats. One of the weaknesses of Saga was that there were hardly any sidequests to draw you into the game, fortunately the main quest was involving enough to draw you in. However 1 thing i have to ask is do Sega have enough resources to produce a PD RPG to rival KOTOR? Bioware and LucasArts are both very successfull companies wheras sega has been loosing money for a couple of years. Also surely producing a launch title would cost extra money in getting the coders used to the new system?
That’s not really a question that anyone can/would answer. ANd it’s not a matter of spending money to get to know the new system. That’s going to happen regardless, right? If you don’t spend the money learning the next generation of systems, you’ll end up behind the curve, and you’ll lose.
When I said no more shooters were beeing made I didn’t acually “mean” that and you know it…
I meant they aren’t made in numbers that rival with other genres…
Oh and I haven’t played KOTOR, you are right.But the simple fact that you can costumize your charcaters makes it a different kind of plot.You know, there isn’t a real character, you are playing yourself…
So what are you saying? That if at the start of PD Saga you could pick what clothes and what color hair and what starting skills* (Well assuming that he had any skills lol…)* Edge would have in the game that would make the plot not as good as it is? It would be the same exact thing plus you’d have a character that suits you in looks and playing style… It wouldn’t affect the story in anyway apart from perhaps being able to chose a different name and having characters in game use that instead of “Edge”…
Obviously this is just an example, it doesn’t mean I would want Saga or a new PD game to have that ability, it’s just an example to show that any game can have both a great plot as well as customizable characters…
And just cos the PD series don’t have customizable characters it doesn’t mean they can’t have sub quests either… PD Saga in fact did have a few sub quests laying around, what if there were more and better ones like those? How would that be in any way unfitting or bad?
And about the shooters, why make them in bigger numbers when even the ones made don’t sell good? The fact they are not being made in numbers is a result of them not selling well, and not the other way around…
What difference does a name make with the game story? Absolutelly no difference! Saga would be Saga even if Edge was called Gehn or Alex or Shadow or something else…
And exactly what do we know of Edge’s background before Saga? Almost NOTHIN! And I don’t think any of us care what he did before either, he was just a random guy like most RPG “Heroes” are before getting involved into the stories we end up playing and doing something importand…
And btw, characters in KOTOR do have a set background, I suggest you play the game before you start saying more things about it that are untrue…
“Oh and popular shooters don’t exist cause they aren’t made anymore : that doens’t mean that they aren’t good.”
I was only responding to this comment. You said that they aren’t being made anymore. I pointed out some great shooters that were made, and that were good (like you said), but didn’t sell well (which was my point). I was arguing that shooters don’t sell well, and you were arguing that that doesn’t mean they’re not good. That was never my point.
As for KOTOR, I understand what Gehn is saying. In most Japanese RPGs (with the exception of the DragonQuest series, primarily), you control a hero that you want to become. In most western RPGs, you are the hero. There is a difference, as Gehn stated. However, KOTOR is the first game to bridge that gap very, very nicely. The character has personaily, but it has whatever personality you pour into it. This is achieved by giving you mountains and mountains of choices to choose from during conversations. Do you want to be sarcastic to the Dark Jedi? Go ahead! Mouth off to the Jedi Council? Sure! Or do you want to be the noble Jedi who rushes to the aid of every damsel in distress? Go for it!
Just because the personality doesn’t come pre-determined, doesn’t mean it’s not there. Hell, one of the best games ever made (IMO) has a main character that hardly has any personality: ICO. But, that doesn’t mean that the story was less deep than FFX. In fact, I abhorred the fact that Tidus would often do/say things that I thought were ridiculous. It destroyed the continuity of the story for me.
Yes, changing the type of narrative/presentation of the story will affect the gameplay in some ways… however, that does not mean changing the narrative style will exclude the game from being in certain genres.
And yeah, Brandt is right. The main character does have a fixed story. It’s quite amazing, actually. One of the few things in a game in recent history that forced a huge grin across my face. Man, that game r0x0r3d
I think the likelyhood of a new Panzer title is pretty good. Sega obviously don’t count previous sales as a guide to what might be worth developing. I mean, Orta was on the console with the smallest user base in Japan and the first three titles…well…they were on the Saturn:)
Given the way that sequels are generally now just a refinement of the previous game engine, the next Panzer will, I think, almost certainly be a shoot-em-up.
They’ll grind this engine into the dust before thinking about an RPG.
It should be pretty obvious to Sega now that the Panzer series, if not an outright hit, is at least a good sleeper hit. It has word-of-mouth behind it and that’s always good taking risks for.
[quote=“Brandt”]“Does it have a fix history background?”
Actually, yes. Play it before you spout off.[/quote]
I’m talking about the main character!
Geez you don’t don’t get it![/quote]
He does get it. And both me and Abadd said it as well. Characters do have a set background. The only thing you pick at the beginning is name, face and class, you don’t mess with the character’s background or anything like that.
As for choices, heck you could make choices in the the Shining Force series… And the main character didn’t really talk all that much…
Anyway ofcourse there are differences but like I said in my post, those differences have nothin to do with the ability to make a panzer game have sub quests and choices etc… It could work just fine and be damn good too, it doesn’t mean it would lose any of the elements we like now. It would still have an amazing story and still have lovely story sequences. Just because u could possibly make some choices in dialogues earlier, it doesn’t mean there couldn’t be cut scenes at story development points. Heck perhaps the story sequences would end up more or less the same no matter the choices you made earlier and that those choices would just affect your interaction with certain NPCs and sub quests you would find out about etc etc. Or more than just that, anythin could be done and still keep an engaging storyline with lots of neat cut scenes… PD would lose nothin if they tried to make the gameplay like that…
Actually, Gehn, I do believe I was the one who said that the Panzer series needed to change, but you said that there’s nothing wrong with shooters. Stick to one argument
liveinabin: Well, sales do count. But, you’re right that Panzer still has good word of mouth, which is probably why there’s still even a remote chance that another Panzer will be made. My personal opinion is that if the next one is a shooter, the series will be over for good.
liveinabin: Well, sales do count. But, you’re right that Panzer still has good word of mouth, which is probably why there’s still even a remote chance that another Panzer will be made. My personal opinion is that if the next one is a shooter, the series will be over for good.[/quote]
murrr…i agree.
…and liveinabin, if that is your real name (:P), I believe somewhere it said that if another PD game was to be would it would, without question, be an RPG…or maybe that was just Solo, i dunno…Solo, did you say that? bad memory
