Yes, this is becoming a bit of an obsession…but it needs to be laid to rest. The ancients were, indeed, human. Another clue that supports this (which is usually overlooked) is the fact that the security systems in the Tower and in the other ruins around the world, speak in a tongue which is comprehendable by humans - Edge understood the language, and so did Orta.
The humans in the current time period are simply the descendants of the Ancients with a severe case of amnesia.
Does that mean that we should all understand every language that was ever spoken 10,000 years ago because we’re human, too?
Of course not - but it doesn’t make any sense that the drones AND the humans AND the Ancients speak the same language as each other, unless they came from the same source. It’s definitely no coincidence.
i’m willing to believe that the ancients were humans. because if they weren’t, what are humans? a single species let live on a planet controlled by a superior species? if humans were native, then the ancients killed/allowed all other creatures to die. if we weren’t native, then the ancients brought us/allowed us to emigrate.
now that is assuming a lot but whatever the case is, it implies that humans served a purpose to the ruthlessly efficient ancients. there are just too many unanswered questions to adhere to the non-human theory yet.
i would like to submit that humans are mutated forms of drones and no i don’t have any evidence… but if a pure type monster can mutate into a coolia, why can’t drones mutate into humans?
Well we the parrots speak the same language so…
The Ancients could have just teached the humans to speak it or vice versa, or they just lived together since they were born as the races they are…
BUT:I do think the Ancients ARE human.
If that were true, Azel would not have went out of her way to create Orta…it wouldn’t have made Orta all that special, either.
I think pretty much everyone agrees that the Ancients were human, but the fact apparantly remains that they’re not meant to be literally confirmed as being human in any 100% accurate version of the text. (Although if anyone could confirm otherwise, I’d be interested to know.)
At any rate, the “voices from the ruins” are meant to be transmitted telepathically, at least in Saga. What we “hear” is arguably the interpretation of the message by Edge’s brain, so the Ancients’ language is probably still unknown to us.
On top of that, the Drones we know of (Azel and Abadd) had spent significant amounts of time among humans. As they’re meant to be immensely intelligent, they could conceivably have picked up “Panzerese” from their human hosts.
As Abadd pointed out, there’s no way that the Ancients’ tounge could have realistically survived intact for 10,000 years, so other possibilities should certainly be explored first.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that the ancient Egyptians taught them to speak their language in order to communicate. Sure, they were all humans as well, but what I’m saying is that people don’t have to come from a common heritage in order to speak the same language.
And perhaps on this world, only one language ever existed? It flies in the face of all linguistics, but hey, it’s a fantasy world.
All I’m saying is that with fictional stories, unless used intentionally to differentiate between cultures, the fact that everyone speaks the same language is rarely ever “proof” of anything. It may be a clue that helps add support to your claims, but the claim of “proof” should only be attached to evidence that supports your claims, without a doubt. Otherwise, there’s just too much conjecture for it to be worth anything else.
is the concensus that Orta was a human created by a drone? i always tought she was something new entirely, a true blending of a drone and a human. i actually saw her as more drone than human…
I think that’s what he meant. If it were possible for Drones to mutate into humans, there would potentially be a whole legion of drone/human hybrids…
i don’t see how why.
azel was a drone significantly different from others, she was not following her initial programming and through her experiences developed emotions that lead her to create a child. how would these other hybrids come into creation if only drones had the ability and know how to create them and all but azel were more concerned with their missions? maybe i’m missing something…
the thing i can’t explain is how there are so many humans and very few drones.
The importance of Orta is that she is basically a drone with the capability of reproducing, which is the reason why Abadd was so desparate to acquire her (as was the Empire).
If humans were merely descendants of drones, then drones at some point must of developed the ability to reproduce (at least, the ones that mutated would have). All Abadd had to do was to find the mutated drones, rather than spend all that energy trying to get Orta.
(Hm… Go after the hybrid drones wandering the desert? Or try to kidnap the girl on the back of that viscious, drooling dragon-thing?)
but the mutated drones ARE humans, reproduction would be exclusive to humans. it’s like saying that a pure type should be able to shoot the globdules of poison because their mutated counterparts developed it.
also, can’t (at least some of) the mutated type breed? there are male and female variants so… but pure types don’t have that.
humans lost the power to interact with ancient technology but gained reproduction.
mutation/evolution isn’t something that spontaneously happens, like they claim in the X-men movies. It happens gradually over time, at different rates amongst different individuals/groups/etc.
To assume all the drones that mutated into humans all mutated at the exact rate, with no variations in between, would be, well, really unlikely.
Even amongst mutated-types, there are several different variations of each, right?
heh, i know that!
but i also know that mutations are passed down through genes and in the world of PD where pure types are created in towers that act as factories, they SHOULD all be carbon copies. so it is my thinking that the mutations must occur suddenly, like a manufacturing error rather than a gradual change over deep time.
The Empire wanted her for that reason too? Hmm… I always assumed that they just wanted her because they thought she was a Drone (and “Drone” = “Useful” in the Empire’s eyes). I think D-Unit came up with the idea that the Empire wanted to feed Orta’s DNA into the Cradle in order to make their own Drones, which didn’t sound like a bad theory…
I always assumed that the mutated monsters were the result of 10,000 years of Darwinism, myself… though I agree that the idea of Drones mutating isn’t completely bizarre. We’ve been told that a Drone is basically a highly advanced pure-type entity, so presumably they would be susceptible to the same rules as the other “monsters”.
Not that I think the mutants would be humans of course, it just strikes me that it might be possible for Drones to eventually mutate like their pure-type brethren. Well, it certainly isn’t a part of the PD world as we know it, but it’s food for thought [and possibly someone else’s fanfics]
Better luck next time Kadamose. Me, Solo Wing Dragon and others listed all the proof that the ancients were human we could find in a few topics at the old forums, only to be shot down by a certain someone time and time again (those topics seemed to go on forever too). It was fun though, especially since the person who first asked everyone who or what they thought the ancients were (Senor Kaffee) came back here a little while ago and told us that in Panzer Dragoon Saga the ancients are clearly stated to be human.
Resists the urge to strangle Senor Kaffee.
The Empire wanted her for that reason too? Hmm… I always assumed that they just wanted her because they thought she was a Drone (and “Drone” = “Useful” in the Empire’s eyes). I think D-Unit came up with the idea that the Empire wanted to feed Orta’s DNA into the Cradle in order to make their own Drones, which didn’t sound like a bad theory…[/quote]
You can read my opinion on this in the episode FAQ at my site:
I’m not sure if the Empire would be capable of entering her genetic data in the Cradle. If that’s the case, they would need Orta alive because they can’t control the Cradle without the help of a drone. Of course, they probably wouldn’t have to kill her in order to get her DNA, so it’s entirely possible.
No offense dude, but all of your points (while they are good theories) still show no absolute proof, since they can be taken one way or the other.
Wasn’t there something at the end of Iva’s scenerio the said something like “But the only thing I could think of was how humans had made something so beautiful” in regards to the Ancient machine he activated? I’m probably wrong, but, eh, just a thought.