Good sales? Did they reach Break Even? Orta’s sales were far from good, not even decent. I think it sold about 200.000 units worldwide. That’s not really bad, but far from god. In financial terms nothing to justify a sequel (an RPG might cost 5 times what Orta has cost)
[quote=“Goonboy Panzer”]
Considering that RPGs are becoming more and more popular with the fanatical mainstream jap gamer it is more than likely that Sega will want to cash in on this market and get people on board with their PD franchise.[/quote]
Amusing, Indeed.
SEGA wants to do exactly the oposite, they realised they have to go out of the shrinking Japanese market and sell their stuff in the US. The problem is they have no clue to make games (apart from sport games) that really appeal to the US gamer. Even SEGAs braindead managers would not try to make a PD RPG game compete with FF, it’s not possible. point. Apart from that the PD RPG license is “poisoned” in Japan, you are laughed at when you mention it. It was at least partly responsible for the death of a TA team member. So chances are higher that SOA might start something with a US team targetet at the US market, than SOJ ever touching the PD license again.[/quote]
That’s your assumption. Sega has n’t bothered with the western market in years and that’s a fact. The japanese market is their main prioity which is also a fact. RPGs is big in Japan so of course Sega is going for that market.
Most of the players that were buying PS and Saturn titles back in the nineties are not the same people buying games now. It’s a different generation who know next to nothing about the games Sega has done only it’s leagcy. And with the news that Sammy is planning to get rid of SOA and Sega europe,your whole Sega focusing on the west argument does n’t have much weight now does it?
I do think it’s getting fairly unlikely, but I wouldn’t think it’s impossible; game companies do have a habit of resurrecting franchises, simply because it’s often easier to create a quality product within an existing franchise than to create an equally quality product in a completely new franchise. (For example, Nintendo bringing back the Metroid series in Metroid Prime / Metroid Fusion almost a whole decade after the previous games, and Sega doing recent sequels to things like OutRun. And Panzer Dragoon Orta was quite a surprise announcement itself).
To Lord Craymen’s point, though, japanese games just do not do the numbers in the west that they used- the audience and people’s tastes change- all the big sellers are usually based in the real world and done by western developers- there are only a few (admittedly huge) well known exceptions, but fantasy + sci-fi games just don’t do what they used, RPGs in particular. If they can’t sell well to justfiy their product values, then they lost money for the company. I know some US retialers won’t even take most Japanese titles becuase they won’t sell enough based off their shelve space…
Japanese developers did not change with the times, and even in Japan console games don’t sell at all like they used in their native land- cell phones andd other moble markets are where they are seein the biggest growth.
As a sidenote, wouldn’t it be incredible to get your hands on those lost PDS II scripts. Like a holy grail- maybe even fans could try to re-create it…
I’ve vaguely heard of Panzer Dragoon Saga 2 scripts and design documents before, but now I’m curious; do we have any idea which team would have written these things and put them together? Were they drafted by Smilebit during the Panzer Dragoon Orta era, or would they have been an earlier creation than that, or a later one?
What I’d also be interested to know, (and this might be kind of off-topic,) is whether or not Sega planned to make a PD game for the Dreamcast? That seemed to be quite heavily rumoured when the system was unveiled…
[quote]
I’ve vaguely heard of Panzer Dragoon Saga 2 scripts and design documents before, but now I’m curious; do we have any idea which team would have written these things and put them together? Were they drafted by Smilebit during the Panzer Dragoon Orta era, or would they have been an earlier creation than that, or a later one?
What I’d also be interested to know, (and this might be kind of off-topic,) is whether or not Sega planned to make a PD game for the Dreamcast? That seemed to be quite heavily rumoured when the system was unveiled…[/quote]
The rumoured game that your talking about was called PANZER DRAGOON NEXT
which ended up being transferred to Xbox as ORTA along with GUN VALKYRIE and SHINOBI which ended up on the ps2.
As i’ve mentioned before the people at Smilebit mentioned on doing a sequel to PDS if the sales of the game were good to warrant one. The game as we all know by now broke even. So I’m taking them on their word that they will do it.
As you have mentioned Sega has been updating certain franchises and ones that are popular with the Sega masses. So i think a PDS sequel is more of a possibility now especially when they are a third party.
[quote=“Goonboy Panzer”]The rumoured game that your talking about was called PANZER DRAGOON NEXT
which ended up being transferred to Xbox as ORTA along with GUN VALKYRIE and SHINOBI which ended up on the ps2.[/quote]
I suspected that might have been the case, but was Panzer Dragoon Orta in development long enough to have been planned for the DC but moved onto Xbox? (It doesn’t seem so unlikely, but I’d be interested in a source if you could quote one…) I guess I was wondering if any of these proposed PDS sequels were suggested for the Dreamcast rather than any later consoles, but I assume we don’t know that much about Sega’s internal affairs?
I know of at least 2 that even made it to SOA for “spellchecking”
But then again,do you know what japanese design docs look like? You can image what a “draft” looks like then
But what makes you sure a Western developer couldn’t make a PD RPG?
All you need is play the old games (which the Orta team did so obviously…), watch and read Nausicaa (and the rest of the Miyazaki movies), watch Green Legend RAN and the old Starwars movies, and you are set.[/quote]
I remember reading a feature with the ORTA Team, and in that I think it was Takayuki Kawagoe that confirmed that they was a rough draft of SAGA II.
A Western developers could never handle the Art Direction and style of SAGA II. I?m a massive of O.TO.GI .
And that?s got Art Direction that Western developers could only dream of matching. It is so Japanese
[quote=“Goonboy Panzer”]The rumoured game that your talking about was called PANZER DRAGOON NEXT
which ended up being transferred to Xbox as ORTA along with GUN VALKYRIE and SHINOBI which ended up on the ps2.[/quote]
I suspected that might have been the case, but was Panzer Dragoon Orta in development long enough to have been planned for the DC but moved onto Xbox? (It doesn’t seem so unlikely, but I’d be interested in a source if you could quote one…) I guess I was wondering if any of these proposed PDS sequels were suggested for the Dreamcast rather than any later consoles, but I assume we don’t know that much about Sega’s internal affairs?[/quote]
I did read somehwhere that 6 months of work was done on a DC version of a Panzer Dragoon game, but was scrapped after the graphics weren’t up to the standards that the Team were hoping for.
I haven’t a clue if it’strue or not. DO know there was a NiGHTS II running on the DC but Naka put it on hold.
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]I remember reading a feature with the ORTA Team, and in that I think it was Takayuki Kawagoe that confirmed that they was a rough draft of SAGA II.
A Western developers could never handle the Art Direction and style of SAGA II. I’m a massive of O.TO.GI .
And that’s got Art Direction that Western developers could only dream of matching. It is so Japanese[/quote]
Panzer Dragoon tho is very different and not really based on strictly-japanese concepts.
I, personally, think you’re all being a bit too pessimistic. PDS II is going to happen whether anyone likes it or not - in fact, it’s recently been upgraded from a matter of ‘WHEN IS IT GOING TO HAPPEN?’ to ‘COMING SOON’.
Why do you think EGM, Game Pro, and basically every other VG magazine in the past few months have reported something about a ‘rumor’ of PD 5 in development? It’s because a greenlight was given about 10 months ago, and only a few know about it - but some of the info has leaked, which is why there are so many rumors.
I also remember reading an interview back in February, after the Genos hoax, that the director of PDO, Ahihiko Mukaiyama, was absolutely shocked about how much interest was obtained from the hoax, and wished that that same audience would have shown the same interest in Orta. Later in the interview, a question was directed asking if and when a Panzer Dragoon Saga II would be released - his answer? “No comment”.
I’m looking for the interview on google as we speak, but am having no luck.
Also, I would also like to point out that there was interview with composer Saori Kobayashi in September where she stated she is currently working on a project at Sega, and is currently doing the majority of music for it. She didn’t say what the project was, but when asked what her favorite project and game series was, she said, “Azel: Panzer Dragoon RPG” and she also said that it was the most beautiful world ever realized in videogaming. (I couldn’t have said ithat last part better myself)
So instead of being so pessimistic about a PDS II never going to happen, it should now be refocused to ‘how will Sega screw up their best franchise?’
I don’t suppose you could give a source for this 10 months info…?
Unfortunately, I doubt you’ll be able to find it; I scoured the net for PD-related interviews not too long ago, and although I found quite a few I’m sure I didn’t see the one in question. A lot of developer / industry interviews aren’t kept online for very long…
…or maybe not.
Why oh why do I get the feeling that you and Goonboy Panzer might be same person? =)[/quote]
It’s true! In fact there were TWO interviews done - one in Feb, and one in April before E3. He was asked the same question in both interviews, and his response was the same in both.
…or maybe not.
Why oh why do I get the feeling that you and Goonboy Panzer might be same person? =)[/quote]
Why don’t you just GROW UP. So two people are saying something that you don’t agree with you have to come to some stupid conclusion that they’re the same person to undermine what they are saying.
Of course it has n’t occured to you that many people saw the same articles that Kadamose is referring to. I have n’t seen the article that he’s talking about but i’ve seen the EGM one and the interview with Smilebit about PDS
before the hoax and he was talking about doing PDS2 as the next game.
When a Sega developer is OPENLY talking about a game they want to do it usually means that they are already developing the game except they just say that they “wish” to make it so they’re not revealing anything before it’s supposed to. I’ve seen this with Sega many times before likethe last interview I think was at the defunct core magazine where they were interviewing some people from OVERWORKS back in 2001 and they said they wish to do more american type games like CLOCKWORK KNIGHT,STREETS OF RAGE/BARE KNUCKLE and SHINOBI. Well which game suddenly appered at E3 in 2002? SHINOBI and as it takes up to three to four years in producing a game the guy from OVERWORKS already knew they were making a new SHINOBI game. It was his way in saying that these games are on the horizon.
Sega has a few assets now. Were less likely to see an original game from them but more then likely to see an update of titles that are popular with their former userbase. As a third party they’re more then likely going to
raid their vault. The fact that they updating an old title like ALTERED BEAST
and a planned remake/update of WONDERBOY who both has n’t been seen since the 16bit days should indicate that a PDS sequel in the current enviroment at Sega could happen.
I’d just like to point out that Karamose and Goonboy Panzer have completely different IP ranges. No other comments on the actual topic on hand, however.
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]I remember reading a feature with the ORTA Team, and in that I think it was Takayuki Kawagoe that confirmed that they was a rough draft of SAGA II.
A Western developers could never handle the Art Direction and style of SAGA II. I?m a massive of O.TO.GI .
And that?s got Art Direction that Western developers could only dream of matching. It is so Japanese[/quote]
Panzer Dragoon tho is very different and not really based on strictly-japanese concepts.[/quote]
Yeah I know the Dragoon took a lot for the Frensch style ect
But Japanese RPG?s and Westerner developed RPG?s play and look so different. That?s the case for 90% of the time.
The Art Direction and Organic feel of the Panzer games is 1 of the best part of the series.
I?ve yet to see any Western developed Shooter/RPG. That features charters as beautiful as ORTA or Azel.
But the way I don?t want to come across as 1 of these people that think ?Only The Japanese can make the best games ?.
Just when it comes to tradition RPG?s I prefer JP ones more. In just the same way Japanese developers can?t hold a candle to a Western developed FPS.
And there is nobdoy better able to handle SAGA II than SEGA JP thier slefs.
Did n’t the french artist Moebius help design aspects of the first two games or was it just the first? I know he was DEFINATLY involved in one of the PANZER DRAGOON games.
I’ve got transcriptions of the PD1, PDZ and PDO credits and the PDS localization credits somewhere on my hard drive; I keep meaning to talk to Solo about doing a “credits” section / page for the site, but I do keep forgetting…
The gaming press can be quite misleading about this, but Moebius (Jean Giraud) was not literally involved with the creation of the PD games; Team Andromeda were huge admirers of his work when they set out to make PD1 though, so a lot of the visual style of the series (particularly in that first game) is reminiscent of Moebius’ artistic techniques. However, Moebius is credited in the PD1 staff list as “image illustrator” because he was commissioned to do the artwork for the Japanese game box, where he simply drew his own interpretation of Team Andromeda’s designs.
