Alternative "engraving" of the dragon from Saga's manual

Could this be where the dragon was sleeping before the events of Panzer Dragoon Saga? I always thought those dragon crests were more than just decorative.

I think we discussed this over a decade ago! Don’t we have a Dragon Crest theory, someone wrote?

I always believed this is how the dragon rejuvenated itself. In Saga the baby dragon also flies out of one from inside Shelcoof!

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I always figured the crest was sort of like a cocoon where the dragon could recover in between each game and metamorphosize into a new form of itself.

There’s the three dragon identity theories that Lance Way, @Geoffrey, and I worked on. I’m not convinced that we ever came to a solid conclusion one way or another though. That was likely the point, so that there’s an element of mystery over how the dragon continued in each game and how the dragon crests play a part in that.

I would assume the Heresy Program would be present in whatever version of the dragon we see though. I’m convinced that doesn’t change and is a constant. Because without the Heresy Program, there is no programing or directive within the dragon bio-life form, to fight the towers. That is until Orta.

What I think did change or split off though, is the spirit of Lagi. Since we see him trapped in Shelcoof in Panzer Dragoon Saga. So, obviously by the time of PDS he was separated from the body of the dragon somehow…

But, I wonder about that secret scene in Orta where the Heresy Program tells the dragon that without him he would be mortal. And the dragon chooses to continue on without its protection. So, it does in fact choose to fight the technology of the ancient age without the program. So, I wonder if Lagi’s essence or soul in present in the dragon during Orta and this was his decision based on all the events he experienced, not just some synthetic programing of a dragon?

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Saga baby dragon/solo wing is a nicely embedded easter egg as far as I’m concerned. Much like light wing, it’s not even in the cut scenes even though it would be such an important part of it if it was canon, and even in Zwei they bothered having all those different versions of the ending to account for your perfrormance. If there was a space or budget issue then I think they’d at least make sure to not show the dragon in those cut scenes, focusing on Edge or showing things from his point of view or whatever else would hide the dragon’s current form even if you could see some shadow, movement, hear the wings flap, shrieks, etc.

I thought it’s clear or it seemed natural dragons regenerate or are otherwise forced to hibernate as fossil crests, that at the end of Zwei is super similar to the one at the start of Saga the dragon may come from.

Well, we last saw Lagi (completely evolved into the dragon) and Lundi, inside Shelcoof. Lagi, along with his dragon form, go into hibernation inside the crest. And Edge is able to go to its physical location after it’s repaired/resurrected. And the baby comes out of the crest, from that same chamber. It seems the Heresy Program during this hibernation period, separated itself from Lagi and later found Edge in PDS. Choosing to leave Lagi behind in that crest chamber within Shelcoof.

It seems to elaborate for me to be an easter egg imo.

It’s not that elaborate (again, no cut scene presence) and the size doesn’t even match Zwei or anything and doesn’t even make in-setting sense to be locked with other crests found in other random areas.

Saga’s dragon is Zwei’s (and the whole series’) dragon as far as I’m concerned, just different. Heresy program within and all. For all we know the ruins Edge finds himself in Saga are related to the ruins/tower/whatever at the end of that (or the dragon has had even more adventures we haven’t seen inbetween the three/four games). Or the dragon simply went there to hibernate after destroying that place, we just don’t see it. Nothing suggests it could jump from lifeform to lifeform at will like that, and that it easily finds or spawns/births dragons, enough to leave one, Lagi, and get another or two or something.

There’s also Panzer Dragoon 1 between Zwei and Saga, Lagi returns to Shelcoof after 1? Or is 1’s dragon also different to Zwei’s dragon (yet also Blue/Solo) and is it with or without the heresy program within?

I remember there was a lot of discussion about this previously. The dragon’s identity is complex enough that it was challenging to decide how to structure the encyclopaedia. Should it be one or multiple entries? In the end we came up with this single entry which covers and links to the various theories about the identity of the dragon(s):

These days I lean towards accepting the Attached Dragon Mind Theory. It’s also nice and short compared to some of the others!

At least, the one time we know heresy program left a living dragon that remains behind is when it no longer has use for one. Plus it dies and has offspring rather than somehow turn into a baby. I guess I can accept the possibility it’s a different body in each game and that crests are corpses. But it’s nicer to think it’s the exact same dragon, body and soul, heresy program intact, rather than have heresy program conveniently get a new body as needed, somehow getting in and out of Sestren and eluding it every time. And then is it a coincidence that there’s a dragon crest where the new dragon in Saga appears? Another dragon’s dead body and a living one right in the same place? Or do we assume it also spawned as a baby from that place like the easter egg (and maybe was another dragon with another adventure we never see, that then dies before turning into a baby spawning crest) but has also conveniently grown up by the time Edge gets there? I also see no need outside some kind of weird fan service for the mind of the original to be preserved beyond its crestful heroic physical death if heresy program just so easily finds a new body for them to get in. That wallpaper with the different dragon forms suggests it’s the same, and a split past Saga. I guess it could be interpreted to suggest Zwei’s is different to 1’s/Saga’s. But it also doesn’t show Saga’s turn into light wing or solo wing either, if those are canon. Ah well, we won’t ever know I guess. But I think the hibernation/same physical/mental/program Lagi and all is the simplest and shortest/neatest :stuck_out_tongue:

That’s right I keep forgetting Zwei takes place before the first Panzer Dragoon. That’s why I always wondered why Kyle wasn’t Gash’s mentor instead of Lundi. It even says in Saga that Lundi was the last dragon rider…

As far as the baby dragon goes, Edge does interact with it at camp. And Edge even talks to it in game, acknowledging its presence.

One interpretation of these crests is that they’re a type of “nest”, but for the dragon to die in and be born again in a new form or a clone of the old body. Perhaps some part of the old Lagi was passed to the pup which emerges from Shelcoof in Saga, allowing the Solo Wing to consist of the forms of Lagi. We don’t know where the pup came from at the end of Orta, but it’s possible it was a clone/based on Orta’s dragon which died before the post-credits scene.