So the PS3 costs $600 or 600 Euros

[quote=“Abadd”]Situations such as your own are an extreme minority. Most people don’t care about foreign films. The majority of major DVD releases originate in the US, so what movie companies are most worried about is not the importing of, say, Chinese movies into the US, but the exporting of US movies to the other territories. What happens is that if they don’t attempt to discourage that, you see a much higher level of purchasing of US movies overseas than the opposite, so you have a fairly big grey market.

What that essentially means is that when the studios try to set up distribution deals with publishing companies overseas, the overseas publishing companies are either less enthusiastic about the product simply because there is such a big grey market, so they don’t bother taking the title, or if they ignore the grey market, their sales end up getting hurt by it.

If you really want to play movies from other regions, then buy a DVD player from that region (or find a region free DVD player if you can).[/quote]

I don’t see how allowing a US DVD to work on a Zone 4 DVD player would hurt sales very much. If the DVD is already available in my part of the world, there aren’t many reasons why I would need to import that DVD from the States anyway. It comes down to convienience more than anything. If I buy something, why shouldn’t I be able to use it anywhere in the world, unless there is a practical reason why not.

Once you add on the cost of postage and packaging, it isn’t going to work out much cheaper to by a movie from the US anyway. And even if the exchange rate did make buying things from overseas a lot cheaper, I don’t hear companies complaining that books and audio CDs sold in all over the world sell poorly simply because people can also get them on Amazon.com. Why the exception with movies and games? Even if there was a standdown period where people had to wait a few months before the movies that they paid for are able to be used, that would at least control the market enough to stop importers from getting it before the domestic release.

And like you said, multizone DVD players already exist anyway. So why don’t movie companies get rid of zoning completely, or at least come up with a better compromise than we already have? Zoning does nothing to help the consumer who are the people the movies are created for in the first place, rather, it restricts the way they use something that they legally own.

Yeah, that’s not a bad idea, except I wouldn’t want to lose the ability to connect to Xbox Live. Otherwise, it would be ideal.

[quote=“Solo Wing Dragon”]

Yeah, that’s not a bad idea, except I wouldn’t want to lose the ability to connect to Xbox Live. Otherwise, it would be ideal.[/quote]

The current firmware hack allows you to switch between the original firmware and the hacked firmware at will - Microsoft can do nothing to detect this, because the firmware hash has not been altered. And even if they could do something about it, all you would have to do is switch to the original firmware when playing on Xbox Live.

It’s for several reasons. 1) Worldwide DVD sales are very rare. They are usually staggered, thus opening the market for grey market sales. 2) DVDs are generally cheaper in certain countries (i.e. US) than in others (i.e. Japan).

If you start importing from the US, per se, then you are circumventing the UK distributors, and getting it at a much lower price (as you said), due to the exchange rate. As for the comparison with books: the reason why they don’t complain is because it’s not something they can actually control.

Well, it’s a proprietary format, and they have established their rules. Wrong or not, it’s their IP, and they can do what they want with it (in terms of sales restrictions).

Trust me… you don’t want this. And if this were to happen, the next complaint, anyway, would be, “I paid for it… how come I can’t watch it?”

Multi-region players aren’t strictly legal, per se. Most of them are unlicensed users of the DVD technology, or use hacked firmware. Not strictly illegal in some cases, but it’s something that the movie studios frown upon. Again, it’s to segment the market to better forecast and control.

[quote=“Kadamose”]

Yeah, that’s not a bad idea, except I wouldn’t want to lose the ability to connect to Xbox Live. Otherwise, it would be ideal.

The current firmware hack allows you to switch between the original firmware and the hacked firmware at will - Microsoft can do nothing to detect this, because the firmware hash has not been altered. And even if they could do something about it, all you would have to do is switch to the original firmware when playing on Xbox Live.[/quote]

Oh I bet M$ will update the firmware and that new games will need the new firmware in order to play . I got banned once from playing Live with the mod chip . Pissed as a fart coming back for the pub , and wanting to play a game online (forgetting I had the Mod chip on) I’m not going to make the same mistake again

[quote=“Abadd”]When was the last time you saw a multiple DVD game? Perhaps on the GC, but that’s because each disc could only hold 1.5GB of data. The whole point of a console setup vs a PC is that it’s a static machine.
[/quote]

I take it no-one has come across Myst IV: Revelation. It comes on 2 DVDs. It would have been cheaper if they had been DVD-9s.

[quote=“Abadd”]When was the last time you saw a multiple DVD game? Perhaps on the GC, but that’s because each disc could only hold 1.5GB of data. The whole point of a console setup vs a PC is that it’s a static machine.
[/quote]

MGS3 Subsistence came on 2 DVDs. Most multiple DVD games I’m aware of on the PS2 are RPGs such as Grandia 3, Xenosaga I & II, etc.

The price of the PS3 is ridiculous. I can’t see the average consumer picking this up until it goes down about 300 dollars.
As for the Nintendo Wii…the price is great, but I think it’ll have the same problem that the last two Nintendo systems had…NO GAMES. Yeah, it has it’s games like Mario, Zelda, and all that…and it has some other games like Resident Evil. But compared to what Sony has, it looks pathetic.
I have a GC, and I probably play it every blue moon. I use my PS2 all the time, because of the huge number of games on it.
Unless Nintendo will finally pick up some f**king 3 party developers this time, that people actually care about, they’ll do about like they always do.
As for Sony…they’re seriously going to have to drop that price.

s/m

Third party developer support relies a lot on the popularity of a given console. Sure there’s the odd exclusive deal a company does but for the most part they won’t make a game unless they can guarantee great profit from sales.

Since you think Sony will flop this time (atleast intitially, until they drop the price), shouldn’t you at the same time be more optimistic about Nintendo’s position with third party developers since it’s bound to sell more than past Nintendo consoles?

Sony’s the main reason companies like Sega and Nintendo always lacked third party support anyway. Sure Ninty did some bad moves as well but they’ve improved a lot the last years afaik.

And there’s nothing wrong with having a strong line up of first party games. Who cares Metroid is first party if it’s as good as any third party game offered on other systems? Same for Zelda, Mario, etc.

Anyway, several good third parties already back the Wii so it’s only gonna get better from now on. Especially considering development costs will likely (eventually) put games created for the Wii closer to that of games created for handhelds (and we all know how many of those Ninty gets) rather than games created for the PS3.

Cross your fingers =)

[quote=“Abadd”]

It’s for several reasons. 1) Worldwide DVD sales are very rare. They are usually staggered, thus opening the market for grey market sales. 2) DVDs are generally cheaper in certain countries (i.e. US) than in others (i.e. Japan).

If you start importing from the US, per se, then you are circumventing the UK distributors, and getting it at a much lower price (as you said), due to the exchange rate. As for the comparison with books: the reason why they don’t complain is because it’s not something they can actually control.[/quote]

Yeah, true, books can’t be controlled all that easily. The same for most other forms of entertainment that isn’t data unless there are certain laws governing importing the product from other countries. Audio CD players on the other hand could have quite easily been created with some sort of regional lockout, but music - which is often a cultural art form - really wants to be free of restrictions and heard by everyone, on the radio, on a dubbed tape in the car, streamed from the Internet, etc, etc. Personally I love listening to my collection of CDs imported from Japan and the US (I may be in the minority, but I know for sure that I would buy less CDs if I couldn’t import them), and being able to rip another device freely to avoid my hard copy from being damaged and so that I can create a massive playlist.

Anyway, my point is that such restrictions don’t benefit the consumer, who the movie was made to be enjoyed by the first place. But I think we can both agree that such a thing is unlikely to happen. The restrictions are ultimately enforced for one reason: because they can be.

That was basically the compliant already, but nevermind :slight_smile:

The Xbox 360 can read dual layer DVDs, so the whole game might fit on one of those discs. But good point.

I already own a 360, and now that I look at the competition, I think that Microsoft actually made a smart move by releasing earlier…they appear to be prepared to compete on a software-level with Sony and Nintendo.

Turning my back on a company that has provided me with consistent entertainment, free online service, and the best third party support over the past 10+ years over the cost of a system…well, that would just be silly.

I know that for my $600 I’ll be getting my money’s worth from start to finish.

And thanks to the lower price point, I’ll be sure to pick up a Wii as well.

The thing you need to remember is, if you choose to take advantage of the massive back-catalog of retro titles available for the Wii that you’ll be paying money for each one, and it could all easily average $50-$100+ dollars through the life-span of the console, and if you plan to be online with your 360 for the life of the console, that could average $200-$300 as well.

So, as much as the price(s) of the 360 and Wii appear to be lower than the PS3, there are money-related factors beyond the initial purchase price that people fail to take into consideration that add to the total overall costs of each system.

Adjusted estimates on overall spending for each system with estimated “essentials”:

360

360 Bundle $400

XBL Subscription (3-6 years @ $50)$300

XBL Downloads (3-6 years avg.) $100

1 Additional controller $40

TOTAL $840

Wii

Announced Price Point $250

1 Additional controller (guess) $40

Downloads (3-6 years guess) $100

Nintendo wireless online adapter $30

TOTAL $420

PS3

Announced Price Point $600

Additional controller (guess) $40

Downloads (3-6 years guess) $100

TOTAL $740

The bottom line is that you NEVER get away with JUST the cost of the system…and which of the above has the highest price point at the end of owning one through the consoles entire life cycle? Not the PS3!!! (and I didn’t even take the cost of regular games into consideration!)

Those are pure guesses that don’t really apply until we have all the facts laid out straight for all the years you are guessing about.

For example, the PS3 games could end up costing more due to the blue-ray format and the higher development costs.

Microsoft could eventually (within those 6 years you mention) reduce the fee for the online service in order to compete better.

The downloads aren’t a valid “basic cost” that should be included here since it’s simply games really. If you add that cost then you’d have to do yet another unwise guess about how many “real” games one will buy within those 6 years.

There’s also the Xbox Live points you earn (not sure how) which could make those download costs go down to $0. Or whatever.

Just a few examples.

By the way, when did Sony announce their exact plans for their PS3 online service? I know it’s free to play online games on PSP but that doesn’t really offer any other features. They are doing more with their PS3 service so maybe they’ll be charging too?

You can’t “earn” microsoft points, they are just another currency that you must put down real money for, I think you might be thinking of Achievement Points.

But you’re definitely right about Sony, it is highly doubtful that the online service will be free.

There are way too many assumptions regarding price and features regarding two systems that we still have much more to find out about.

Oh, I thought you can earn points by doing some sort of “achievements” in various games.

I take it no-one has come across Myst IV: Revelation. It comes on 2 DVDs. It would have been cheaper if they had been DVD-9s.[/quote]

I really doubt it mate, DVD disc cost next to nothing to make, which is why most flim studios just use 2 DVD’s instead of dual Layer ones. Having multi DVD’s add little cost overall now, as they’re so cheap to make Its not like the Cube or DC where thanks to having a priority system , meant the discs cost more to make

[quote=“Al3xand3r”]Those are pure guesses that don’t really apply until we have all the facts laid out straight for all the years you are guessing about.

For example, the PS3 games could end up costing more due to the blue-ray format and the higher development costs.

Microsoft could eventually (within those 6 years you mention) reduce the fee for the online service in order to compete better.

The downloads aren’t a valid “basic cost” that should be included here since it’s simply games really. If you add that cost then you’d have to do yet another unwise guess about how many “real” games one will buy within those 6 years.

There’s also the Xbox Live points you earn (not sure how) which could make those download costs go down to $0. Or whatever.

Just a few examples.

By the way, when did Sony announce their exact plans for their PS3 online service? I know it’s free to play online games on PSP but that doesn’t really offer any other features. They are doing more with their PS3 service so maybe they’ll be charging too?[/quote]

Well, you can speculate all you want, but my estimates are still pretty close, and at the end of the console cycle, if Sony doesn’t charge for basic online service, even WITH microtransactions, and a higher price point for games, you’ll LIKELY wind up paying less overall for just the essentials of the PS3.

But, of course, this is WHY I used the words GUESS and ESTIMATE in my above examination of the pricing situation.

And I SERIOUSLY DOUBT Microsoft will never reduce the fee of XBL. They didn’t for 6 years of XBL on the original XBOX, and I don’t see any signs of them doing so in the future.

And you’re thinking of two different things with XBL “points”.

The ones on your gamertag are not “currency” they’re just status points to show off how many achievements you’ve completed in the games you own.

Transaction points need to be purchased. There may be free points given away in promotions, but I’ve not heard of any that you can “win” in a game.

Excuse me for being slow, but why did you include download costs on your comparision? I’ve never paid for any downloadable content from XBL, and the majority of gamers don’t/won’t either.

nor is XBL a “basic essential”. If you wanted to have the basics of a console, I wouldn’t factor in a Live subscription. The silver service gives you free access to the marketplace and I think they have free play weekends sometime (I’m not sure, I don’t have a 360). So you should discount the subscriber fee if you’re ATTEMPTING to compare basics here.

Well on the XBL situation I think he’s right to include it since atleast one of the competitors (Nintendo) offers online gaming for free. But I don’t think we know what Sony’s plans are for their online service in regard to pricing so yeah, this comparison shouldn’t have been made…

Edit: Uh, wth… I had a post added before yours Pants, where did it go :anjou_wow:

If Nintendos new online “service” is anything like their old one it had better be free :slight_smile: