[quote=“GehnTheBerserker”]Concerning SFNeo’s quality : Al3x please check shining-force.jp’s character section for the game.I don’t know most of other Shining characters but some fo those truly blow…The “main” female character…please…
I’m not saying is going to suck as far as gameplay is concerned tho.I personally think Action RPGs have room for a much deeper and greater gameplay than Strategy RPGs.That’s not to say I don’t like Strategy RPGs…[/quote]
I never commented on the characters before… I will now tho.
Personally I don’t see much wrong with any of the characters shown on the website. They are all pretty standard anime stuff with the races of the SF series… Some of them could have a better pose but I don’t think that these concept artworks are to be seen as exactly how the 3D characters will look… Others could use some spicing up in their clothing choices since they look fairly plain but then again they may look good in 3D or these may not even be the final designs.
The one character that looks fairly crap (atleast on the 2D incarnation of it) is that pet thing on the top left (Chiquitita). On second thought, the pet thing that is most to the right looks even worse (Adam).
I think I mainly dislike the art style rather than the actual characters tho so I’ll not pass a final judgement on them until I get to see the final 3D models…
For the battle system comment, I don’t think Action RPGs can ever be as deep as Turn Based Strategy RPGs. Even if the creators crammed in as many moves as are found in a Virtua Fighter character for example, complete with special moves and spells, it would still not be as deep as commanding your own mini army where each of the characters has a ton of skills, his own statistics, strengths and weaknesses and personal equipment… Plus, additions can always be done to this kind of battle systems to add as much depth as the creators wish if there is a solid base… The possibilities are pretty much infinite in that aspect… Except that companies don’t go that way much because they don’t wish to overwhelm the players with too many things that need keeping track of (some games already have too much of that somewhat). I’m sure that if the genre becomes more popular in the future we will see deeper systems appear.
That’s pretty much all I’ve been trying to say… We simply don’t have enough information to know that the game is a “pile of garbage” and will “bomb like Shining Tears did”. Even if that happens in the end, that kind of comments at this time are just random and pointless…
No more pointless than saying otherwise. I can call a game garbage before it comes out, and you can throw out the opposite or tell me not to throw out an opinion, but none of these comments changes the product that arrives in the end. The very nature of discussions on message boards are “random and pointless”.
Pot: Kettle, you are black!
Kettle: So are you, pot!
And as far as the game goes, I have plenty to go off of so far. I don’t like the fact that it’s an action/RPG instead of strategy/RPG, so we’ve already killed the gameplay aspect that I was searching for to begin with. I don’t like the character designs at all, and thus it would bother me the entire time if I picked this game up. I don’t like the music composer they opted for (see: Evangelion… a big no-thank-you), and I have to listen to that stuff the entire time I play. We’re already off to a great start, aren’t we?
I’ve always been extremely nitpicky about what I purchase. It’s primarily why my gaming library is small, but it is composed of over 90% in games that I have thoroughly enjoyed from start to finish. I intend to keep it that way, and will not bother with “giving it a chance”. You all are free to do so, but just as you make a choice, I can do the same. That gut feeling that I have has served me well so far, and I intend to stick with it. And that’s that.
So you said the game will “bomb like Shining Tears did” because it’s not a game of your taste? If you don’t like action RPGs, I can’t make you like them and it wasn’t my intention to do anything like that at all. All I was against was the certainity with which you were saying the game WILL flop and kept treating that statement as a fact in all your subsequent replies when you don’t have anything to back that up. As I said in an earlier post, if you simply meant to say that you don’t think you’ll like the game due to the reasons you gave above, you could have replied that the first time I argued and end this. Because, since when does your taste dictate which games are/sell good and which aren’t/don’t?
If you were simply saying all these things as a means to say that you personally dislike this game then you could have atleast specified that earlier rather than keep treating your words as a definite and 100% certain fact since that “fact” goes beyond an opinion and into stating what the whole world’s reaction to this game that you still don’t know how it will play will be. Based on nothing more than personal dislike for certain aspects. Hell, for some of those aspects you haven’t even really seen them. Some 2D designs may not really represent 3D artwork that well and knowing the composer doesn’t mean you’ve heard the soundtrack. Proffesional composers are versatile and you don’t know what Sega hired this guy to create.
But anyway, it’s your choice to hate a game and it’s your choice to do statements that go beyond the simple expression of opinion and it’s my choice to end this here on my part since it has dragged on for too long. Atleast some ppl like Gehn and Rune Lai saw the simple point I’ve been trying to make.
Congrats on having a small library of games you’ve enjoyed, that’s pretty much the same as mine and propably the same as everyone’s on these forums, I never said I’m gonna go out and buy this, I’d be a fool to do so when I’ve been saying how we simply can’t know how good or how bad it will be yet.
PS: Since some of your last reply made it seem like I have perhaps said the game will be good or that I may give it a chance when it’s out by purchasing it, I really haven’t done anything like that. I also don’t like the fact it’s not a real Shining Force game either. But, since it really isn’t a Shining Force game, I’m not gonna put that kind of expectations on it and just treat it like a new title despite its name. So, as far as I’m concerned, as I have been stating all this time, we need more than what we have in order to see a hint of how it will shape up. When we get that, I may see it as a crap game too and ofcourse without the need to buy it first. Over and out
I almost can’t believe what I’m reading. This guy is joking of course? Hasn’t Mr Shimosato played Shining Force III, or even Sega’s own Riglord Saga? They are 3D Strategy/RPGs are they not?
The team developing the game seem to believe that taking the classic Shining Force gameplay into the 3D realm wouldn’t translate into a gaming experience suitable for a home console. I’m sure that Camelot would beg to differ.
I think that’s far from what that quote says. They claim they wanted to do more than just take the classic gameplay and add 3D graphics on it. Which is what Camelot did with Shining Force III. So, yes they’ve propably known of the games you mentioned but they didn’t want to do the same thing they did, that bit is stated crystal clear imo.
So they considered adding realtime elements to the classic system and that’s what they felt wouldn’t translate into a gaming experience suitable for the home console. So they opted for a full on real time action RPG instead.
No, I don’t like their choice since when they saw it wouldn’t work they should have gone back to the classic system and make a Shining Force III successor rather than hold on to their desire of real time elements but their statement still doesn’t say what you thought… I think.
The Shining Force series has already been taken into the 3D realm with great success, so saying that “it wasn’t enough to simply take the original gameplay systems and make the jump to 3-D visuals” is quite frankly laughable.
I don’t buy that excuse even for a second.
The thought that the last true Shining Force game any of us may ever play was a game that wasn’t even released outside of Japan in its entirety is almost enough to drive me over the edge.
Yeah it’s a silly excuse but it may actually be true since you are talking to a new team that is just up to make a SF game but still wants it to be their game and not just a copy of the old ones put in nice 3D.
Either way, would there really be any “acceptable” excuse on their design choice? I don’t think so… Plus, that was an interview or whatever so it’s all public relations, they’ll say what they think will sound best to the majority of the public.
[quote=“GehnTheBerserker”]Who is responsible for developing new Shining games anyways?
Who did Soul,Tears and Neo?[/quote]
Shining Force Resurrection of the Dark Dragon, Shining Tears, and Shining Force Neo are being made/have been made by… Amusement Vision.
Shining Soul 1 and 2 were made by Sega of Japan, I’m not sure if they were made by a specific development team or what though…
As for the quote above, I don’t believe it for a second to be honest. Sega wanted to make the new Shining Force game an action RPG to appeal to the mainstream PS2 audience that doesn’t have the attention span to play a turn based strategy RPG. They can say what they like, but I’m 95% sure that was at least part of the reason.
The question is, would Joe Bloggs the casual gamer rather sit patiently through hours of non interactive fighting or hack and slash their way mindlessly through hordes of creatures? Casual gamers like their graphics, but - in general - a quick and assessable game is an important lure as well, regardless of how shallow the game might play beyond that.
Before anyone says that I’m picking on this new Shining “Force” title, yes I am, because I’m hacked off that it isn’t a true Shining Force title. If I could actually see something positive about Shining Force Neo then I’d be happy to alter my opinion. However, it seems to me that each time we hear something new about this game it gets worse and worse.
Action RPGs are not necesserilly shallow nor are Strategy RPGs necesserilly deep tho…
I think beeing the SF fans that some of you are (I only played SF2 which I loved) you are still demonizing (sp?) the responsible for SFNeo.
Even tho I agree that from what I’ve seen so far its gonna be average and I don’t believe there is some dark reason behind this change of plans.There is a gray area between making profit and listening to the fans.
And there is also a third part where you don’t really know if you are gonna satisfy either one of those premises.Maybe the team just thought it would be a cool game.An action RPG.
Why does it always have to be a “devil’s hand” in it all?
[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]Apparantly Sonic Heroes has what Sega calls “mass market appeal”, which is always something I find difficult to define.
[/quote]
It’s absolute shit, but it’s shit in such a subtle way that people without brains fail to notice. Case in point: Rail Canyon. WTF was that all about? That took grinding and reduced it’s coolness factor in a similar fashion to Vanilla Ice.
Edit: In reply to Gehn’s post, yes, I have played it. In fact, I rather stupidly paid ?30 for it. It’s easily the worst 3D Sonic game yet, mostly due to annoying glitches and overly long levels.
[quote=“GehnTheBerserker”]And there is also a third part where you don’t really know if you are gonna satisfy either one of those premises.Maybe the team just thought it would be a cool game.An action RPG.
Why does it always have to be a “devil’s hand” in it all?[/quote]
You only have to look at the way Sega has handled the Shining series up until now (since Shining Force III) to come to the conclusion that using the Shining Force name in this new action RPG is simply a means of capitalizing on the series that Camelot built up. Shining Force Neo is an action RPG, so why not call it Shining Soul III instead? Or how about just “Shining Neo” (as odd as that may sound)?
That’s what the other games are for… to be able to have different gameplay systems in the same world as Shining Force. Why destroy what made the Shining Force a force in the first place? I don’t see how switching between three different characters in an action RPG can compare to controlling an entire army at once.
I agree that action RPGs can be deep though. There are other games that have excellent real time battle systems… but why does Shining Force have to copy them?
You didn’t. It’s the comment that this is all just “random and pointless” that bothered me, as an attempt to push your own point of view. Message boards ARE “random and pointless” to begin with.
Nice job of twisting my words around. I gave reasons for why I am not interested in the game, because you stated that there’s not enough to justify someone calling it crap. Totally seperate from the issue of why it will flop. I went off on sales potential in previous board posts, so I’d appreciate it if you didn’t try to combine the two to try to prove your point. Thanks.
You keep saying “I don’t have anything to back that up” when I most certainly do. Read the previous posts. Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and multiple other series didn’t just get their multi-million playerbases “because it’s Square” or “because it’s Enix”. I covered why those two companies have continued success with their franchise games in previous posts, so I recommend you go read them again. I tire of repeating myself.
Oh, by the way… I prefer action-based combat such as the Tales or Star Ocean engine in my RPGs. Just thought I’d throw that one out.
It doesn’t. That’s entirely you twisting what I’ve said. What sells and what I like are two entirely different subjects, and your attempt to combine them into one issue is absurd and irritating.
Blah blah blah, see previous response.
The character art is what 3D models are based off of. Minor details such as a button here, or a bracelet there may or may not make it in, but the overall design concepts, such as the main character’s midriff being exposed (no thanks), will remain. And yes, before anyone cries hypocrite, Medion’s third outfit in Shining Force 3 did bother me. It’s silly, and it doesn’t even make any sense as far as combat is concerned, to expose the most vunerable region of your body. True, RPGs as a whole don’t make much sense to begin with, but I draw a line at certain points for myself.
As far as composers are concerned, you’re wasting your breath. Each music composer retains a particular style or element that makes them stand out. Motoi Sakuraba’s style for instance, is immediately recognizable in many of the games he has composed music for. You can almost always tell it’s him as soon as you go into a battle screen in any RPG. His battle themes are instantly recognizable, and it goes way beyond just Sakuraba.
I find Shiro Sagisu’s music style irritating for the most part with its cheesy 80s sitcom feel, and that’s just the way it is. The music from the Shining Force Neo trailer just confirmed that Sagisu’s music style is still exactly the same, and I’m not interested in hearing more of it.
Implied: “you’re stupid because you didn’t agree with me like a few other people did” finishing move. Just an idea, but try standing on your own two feet, rather than using other people as a leverage tool.
Again, see previous statements on the issue of combining the discussion of the game flopping and my personal opinion of the game itself.
Didn’t say you were going to go buy it. One has a choice right this very moment: you can just push it out of mind like I’m doing, or you can give it a chance and see how it plays out. Giving it a chance != purchasing the product. You CAN’T purchase the product right now, but you can most certainly give the game a chance.
Since I’m a huge jerk when it comes to these discussions, I’m going to take one of your lines, alter it a bit, and throw it right back at you. Since when do you dictate what’s enough to make judgement on a game’s development? I’ve already decided I don’t like this game based on the character art, genre bending for the series despite easily being able to avoid it, the chosen music composer, and the development team behind it, and I’m not about to let someone tell me I’m not allowed to have this opinion. I can think whatever I damn well please.
Couldn’t resist since your last points were were attempting to make me look as if I’m trying to force you to give the game a chance, sorry.
I stated in an earlier post you don’t have to like the game, guess you missed it.
I have repeatedly stated what I have been “against” was statements that apparently make you the all knowing as to be able and know how much the game will sell when the game is not even completed yet. Those go beyond opinion. It’s quite simple really. You are not able to tell the future. The game is not out yet and noone has even played it to give us an idea of how it plays. You can’t know if it will flop based on your personal opinion of an unfinished product that we have few information about. You can have your opinion on it but you can’t express the opinion of the whole world on it, guess you missed it too.
I have also repeatedly stated that if that kind of statements were simply a means to emphasise your opinion on the game you could have said it earlier and put an end to this. Still, as statements they were premature and, even if they end up true, unfitting at this time since, again, you can’t tell the future and the game doesn’t look to be the kind of totally shitty game noone buys so far even if, according to your own preferences, it’s not something you as a person think you will like. I’m sure you didn’t like Sonic Heroes and yet it sold decently.
So, no. I’m not trying to combine points, these were the points I was against on the first place. Not the fact you don’t like the game but the fact you said it WILL FLOP, I’ll even quote my first reply after you made that point.
’
For your next point, giving a reason on why other games sell isn’t the same thing as giving a reason on why another specific game will not sell. Especially since, again, you don’t even know the gameplay of that game.
As for the last thing, what kind of information are enough to be able and judge a game, I’d think you atleast need to know its gameplay. Game, gameplay, get it? And no, knowing the genre is far from knowing how a game actually plays. You have Final Fantasy and you have Panzer Dragoon Saga. You have Starfox and you have Panzer Dragoon Zwei and Space Harrier and Afterburner…
And in this specific case you may have Zelda, Dungeon Siege, Seiken Densetsu, Story of Thor, Alundra, Final Fantasy Adventure, Diablo II, Sudeki, Shining Tears, and a ton of other games that may belong in the same genre as Shining Force Neo but are far different from each other and attract different fans. So, again, what exactly do you have to back up the “fact” that the game will flop? I’ve been against that point from the start and u’ve replied so many times and still have provided no reasons for that statement.
And, yes, that’s really my last post and even any further attempts at twisting this or any previous one will not make me reply again since it will simply be pointless if that kind of thing happens again so feel free to reply however you want…
I’ll start with: I am not trying to start a console war here ok?
First of all, I’m a huge Shining Force fan, as are many others around here. Whenever I hear or see that a new Shining Force game is coming out I go mental to be blunt. Shining Force the Return of the Dark Dragon for example. I did happen to buy that…and it was useful to some degree in long car journeys and boring bits on holiday.
So, when I heard that yet another Shining Force game was coming, mental again, but this time a little warey. Once I saw that they had changed the battle system…I was very disappointed. Then…I saw in was for PS2. More disappointment.
Now, this has mainly been all about flopping, game sales, etc etc. But in general people have thought about Shining Force fans buying NEO. Yeah, obviously aimed, but what about all those peeps out there who haven’t played or even heard of any other Shining Force games? I showed the screenshots to those type of peeps…they all wanted to buy it.
Now thats done with, my second point. After seeing the screenshots and hearing how they have changed it so much, I wasn’t surprised it was coming out for PS2. Ninty have brains enough not to buy something like that
Hey does Shining Force NEO remind you of anything? PSO Ep.3 ring any bells? They completly changed the way it played…taking an excellent game like PSO and turning it into…Ep.3. Why did they do this? For basically the same reasons why the changed SF into NEO. They didn’t want a hyped up version of the old game…
Sega have stopped listening in truth…
P.S - Sonic Heroes sales, people may have thought it was actually gonna be something…well…good. Memories of the old games always give me hope that the new one is gonna be good. Overpowers my better judgment.
