PDS reviewed in this month's Game Informer

Panzer Dragoon
21

[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]

With adventure and puzzle games dying out, I may actually be inclined to call that person a moron. But hey, that’s just me.

Let’s give the latest first person shooter clone yet another 9 out of 10 for originality.[/quote]

But most of our fav Saturn games were hardly original though . I loved the 32bit days the best , becasue we had those insant pick and play games Like your lightgun and shooter games (by far and adway my fav genre) , but if you like FPS , RPG’s , Racers then it really hasn’t been better.

The current 360 gaming line up is the best I’ve seen since the 95/96 Saturn gaming line up . What hurts me is the death of the small outfits that used to make shooters every month and the death of the lightgun games on all consoles. But these days games cost so much to make , we can’t have small Teams making shooters ect, thats hardly the fault of the new consoles though , but the way of the world.

I really wish SEGA would give Panzer one more go , just to show lame Factor 5 how its done and how to make a great shooter , and port its Light Gun games over to the PS3 and 360 (HOTD IV , Lets Go Jungle ect) . Nobody makes a better 3D shooter or Gun game than SEGA , and its high time SEGA Rammed that fact down people throats

That what I don?t like under Sammy is the new SEGA that seems to forget about its core fans , the ones that always been more cult or the underdog . Sure we all know SEGA needs to make money and make games that the current market place wants . But it be nice to think it will also look after its core fans, that like Arcade ports and like Light Gun games ect .

I think SEGA needs to send a single to its core fans that they aren?t forgotten, Make a game that will really send that signal out , like a new REZ, ORTA, BR II , JSRF game just to give the core fans something to cheer and look forward too, in addition to its strong like up for the mass market

22

[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]

With adventure and puzzle games dying out, I may actually be inclined to call that person a moron. But hey, that’s just me.[/quote]

There has never been more games. With more quantity there is bound to more quality. Take the music industry for example. The 80’s and the 90’s had a few mainstream bands I loved listening to but nowadays I feel like everything is crappy. But I can’t say it’s suck because it’s never been more diverse. The best bands might not be mainstream but they are out there.

I think that is the direction the game industry is heading as it grows. Even now you have more adventure and puzzle games then there ever existed. Maybe you don’t seem them in stores (which tend to focused their attention on the mainstream) but there are hundreds of great indie adventure and puzzle games out there. More than there ever was.

Like prog rock.It was big in 70’s and then it “died”, right?Wrong. Some of the best progressive rock is being played and released in indie record labels right now.It might not be mainstream but it’s there.Same with the movie industry.Just because the last Saw movie is rubbish doesn’t stop masterpieces like “Tropa de Elite” (Elite Squad) from being released.

23

Sorry guys but less games that make us think is a step backwards, not forwards. You can’t justify the death of whole genres with the same old we-need-to-make-money excuse.

But that’s fine. They don’t make money, so deserve to die out. See the flaw in that logic?

TA: Sega aren’t going to spend millions of whatever to please a handful of fans. I see things from their point of view fine, and if you want to look at it that way, Sega always was nothing more than a business.

Which again, is fine. So why keep it alive when it was so close to dying? Why not let something that was clearly, (crystal clearly) unprofitable die?

I wouldn’t call an era where so few games are made by gamers for gamers a golden one. Not by a long shot. It’s clone after clone, and RPGs are so costly to make now you won’t ever see them translated unless they have sold millions already. A golden age indeed.

It’s a great industry for making money now if you are a soul-less multi-billion dollar/whatever corporation. But so is the arms industry. So let’s stir up some more conflicts so we can sell weapons?

Btw TA, keep an eye on the emulation scene. Arcade perfect emulations of Daytona and VF etc. Can you say awesome? Sega could actually make money from more retro collections to be frank, yet those are few and far between. Why? They aren’t deemed a worthwhile investment. Fair enough. Sega have done decently in that department with some good retro packs, if only for Japan, but still.

I still love Sega, but only because the publisher tries to reinvent gaming as a business model. We need to see more than Sonic from them though. Now from a pure business point of view, you can argue that the more unique franchises you have exclusive to you, the better. So maybe capitalism will be good for gaming after all? Time will tell.

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[quote=“Gehpnaet”]I think that is the direction the game industry is heading as it grows. Even now you have more adventure and puzzle games then there ever existed. Maybe you don’t seem them in stores (which tend to focused their attention on the mainstream) but there are hundreds of great indie adventure and puzzle games out there. More than there ever was.

Like prog rock.It was big in 70’s and then it “died”, right?Wrong. Some of the best progressive rock is being played and released in indie record labels right now.It might be mainstream but it’s there.Same with the movie industry.Just because the last Saw movie is rubbish doesn’t stop masterpieces like “Tropa de Elite” (Elite Squad) from being released.[/quote]

You won’t see many adventure games with high production values, and maybe you are right. It’s still a dead genre when only a couple of publishers control the whole industry and deem them unworthy.

Now you want to compare games with music? Ok. How many bands who after hitting the big-time don’t suddenly lose their motivation, and don’t try to mold their music around what a majority wants? How many stick to sending their own unique message no matter what?

I can count them with the fingers on one hand. Tool, Rage Against the Machine, and maybe the Flaming Lips.

Is this a golden age for music? Check out the rap scene and the ghettos from which it spawns, and tell me it is so.

Music isn’t exactly comparable though IMO since it aims to please differently on a more instinctive level.

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Duke I don’t want SEGA to send millions on making games than noone buys , I’m well aware SEGA like any corp doesn’t make games for the fun or it, but to make a profit . I also know SEGA needs to sell inthe market place, not to sell a console . But I’m sick to my back teeth of people saying the same old sorry story. All the staff have left , SEGA are a shadow of thier former self’s they don’t care about the fans .

I don’t want SEGA to go bust making a Saga II or Shenmue III. But I would like to see SEGA take the risk and maybe make a FightersMegaMix or a new REZ just to show that some of the old SEGA is alive and well. I myself would kill for a PowerDrift Arcade and next gen console update . I guess it also depends on it the Teams want to use the classic IP inthe 1st place too. But failing that I like to see more ports of thier Arcade games even if its straight to PS store or XBLA

How long have we been saying that? . I would kill for Model 2 , 3, system 32 retro packs . My god a shooter pack with GunBlade NY(one of the best light gun games ever), HOTD, VC 1&II, Ocean Hunter would be ace, and I’ll sell my Kindenys for a Racer pack with the likes of SEGA Rally, Scud Racer, Daytona USA (yes I know SEGA don’t have the rights).

Oh oh my a LIVE Arcade version of Datyona USA and Power Drift Arcade ports would be the best thing ever . Its about time SEGA woke up the fact its got the best back Catalogue out of any corp

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It’s big business and fair enough to them if that’s all they care about. I just don’t see the demand they supply as always being good for gaming.

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I don’t buy how anyone could call this period we’re in right now a golden age, by any stretch of the imagination. Even if you adore FPS’s, as Gehn was saying, it’s a quite limited genre. And also there has certainly been more games at other times, the 16-bit consoles through to Playstation, Saturn and N64 could see dozens of releases on a weekly basis… which brings me to the flipside of the argument. Nostalgia always tends to filter out the low points, and all the games one may have loved playing over a ten year period rise to the surface of memory and all the crap you tried in between fades away.

In the west right now the FPS (and you can include the growing ‘second person shooter’ trend) is very much equivalent to what the side scroll action game was for the 8/16-bit console eras. And while there’s easily over a hundred beloved scrollers that could fairly be called “classics”, don’t forget there’s thousands more that weren’t worth the time to even play. On the other hand… as I said the FPS is, in practice at least, an extremely limited genre. As in you know almost precisely what the majority of gameplay is going to be like in 9 out of 10 them, and to compound matters the interface is virtually identical, on PC mouse control responds the same according to sensitivity preference, and on console most games try really hard to emulate a few popular examples.

So what am I even trying to say? Hell if I know actually… things definitely aren’t so bad as all that. For me it’s just a matter of tone, gaming is really bland right now, to even get to market a game has to have a certain level of professionalism so there’s not so much obvious garbage out there. But the highs just aren’t there either, there’s fewer games that stand out yet there seem to be fewer even trying to, which is simply not a cool state of affairs.

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[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]

[quote=“Gehpnaet”]I think that is the direction the game industry is heading as it grows. Even now you have more adventure and puzzle games then there ever existed. Maybe you don’t seem them in stores (which tend to focused their attention on the mainstream) but there are hundreds of great indie adventure and puzzle games out there. More than there ever was.

Like prog rock.It was big in 70’s and then it “died”, right?Wrong. Some of the best progressive rock is being played and released in indie record labels right now.It might be mainstream but it’s there.Same with the movie industry.Just because the last Saw movie is rubbish doesn’t stop masterpieces like “Tropa de Elite” (Elite Squad) from being released.[/quote]

You won’t see many adventure games with high production values, and maybe you are right. It’s still a dead genre when only a couple of publishers control the whole industry and deem them unworthy.

Now you want to compare games with music? Ok. How many bands who after hitting the big-time don’t suddenly lose their motivation, and don’t try to mold their music around what a majority wants? How many stick to sending their own unique message no matter what?

I can count them with the fingers on one hand. Tool, Rage Against the Machine, and maybe the Flaming Lips.

Is this a golden age for music? Check out the rap scene and the ghettos from which it spawns, and tell me it is so.

Music isn’t exactly comparable though IMO since it aims to please differently on a more instinctive level.[/quote]

That’s just what I’m saying.It doesn’t matter if the radio favors rap because in the end I’ll still take my cds or my iPod with me and listen to the music “I” like. Since when are we bound to do what the majority does? It doesn’t mean the current ages are crap it just means the current trends aren’t in line with what you like.

As for the music comparison I think it’s better than you think.In the end, even music is made to suit the consumers’ “needs”. Like rap being about whores and booze and parties nowadays. Back in the day it was a lot more personal.

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Much popular rap music angers me. It’s depressing to think that impressionable children are allowed exposure to artists constantly glorifying drugs, gang violence, casual sex, etc., often aiming to model their lives similarly. I find it ridiculous that ‘the powers that be’ even allow such material to be released. Then again, since when has what’s right made money?

30

I don’t know what N64 you had, but it wasn’t the N64 I had , Its release schedule was miserable, looking over the fact it took a good year for the Saturn and PS to really get going their self?s. I also get quite sick of people knocking FPS?s , when the likes of COD IV and Half-Life Orange box, are not just some of the best FPS?s I?ve played, but also some of the best games I?ve played full stop.

Like you said Platform games were 10 a penny in the 16bit ages , that shouldn’t take away from quality games like Revenge of Shinobi or Mario IV and Sonic CD. In the 32bit age everyone and their mum was trying to make a 3D fighter , should that mean we should have dissed VF II, Last Bronx, DOA …saying oh god… not another fighter ?
Same is true for RPG?s like SAGA or SOA ? I mean what?s new in SOA? , its just another RPG , yet people seem to love it
What is with all this FPS hate, as long as its a quailty FPS , why should it matter if it’s a FPS??

This past couple of months as seen the best gaming line up I can remember since 1995/6 in fact. How anyone can moan or find faults with a games like up of Drakes Fortune, Mass Effect, COD IV, HL II, SEGA Rally, Halo III, VF 5, Ace Combat 6, Mario Galaxy, Assassin Creed , PGR IV ect I really do not know.
I mean fair do to SEGA , we?ve even got a half decent Light Gun game too in the shape of Ghost Squad (though it should have been ported to X-Box 3 years ago) .

The only thing missing is shooters from the masters that are RAIZING (R.I.P) , Techosoft (R.I.P), Treasure . But those days are no more sadly. We’ll we’ve yet get to see Treasure’s 360 shooter next year , and better than all that We’ll have REZ in high def and 5.1 (oh I could almost cry tears of joy).

All thats needed is SEGA to get off its ass, and make a REZ II and ORTA II Show the Inept Factor 5 , the fool that is Jeff Minter, how a 3D shooter is really done

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Maybe I shouldn’t have even grouped N64 in there, but I certainly didn’t mean dozens of releases a week for each platform anyway. Plus we’re talking worldwide which is another difference lately, it’s pretty much just east and west now and Japan doesn’t even have the same huge segment of local only games either. My point was simply that, in terms of the number of comercial releases on consoles the current rate is nothing like the 90’s. Or PC games for that matter, not as many as at one time.

And I’m not sure if you think I was hating on FPS’s or not, it was not my intention. But, consider that another Panzer Dragoon shooter is unlikely precisely because there’s literally only one kind of “shooter” in the world for the mainstream majority, at this point in time. Anything that doesn’t conform to that very rigid formula seems like a suicide project.

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There is, of course, a solution to that problem. What that might even kill two rabbits with one shot for many of us here :anjou_happy:

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Speaking of adventure games, I believe a Sherlock Holmes game was released not too long ago, and apparently it’s supposed to be pretty good. But adventure games aren’t what they used to be. None have captured me like The Longest Journey.

There ARE nuggets of good storytelling out there. Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 utterly absorbed me simply because it wasn’t like the other RPGs all following the same stupid formula.