Damn, that looks so much better!
Damn, that looks so much better!
In addition to the discord channel, you can share your thoughts and suggestions of improvement here
It is not common to have the producer himself accepting feedback to improve the game so let’s take this opportunity to make the game as perfect as possible not only for us the old fans but also for new generations who will play this for the first time.
Also just a reminder that the Saturn hardware was limiting a lot of the level design. It’s not because a level was full of plain water that it was a choice of the mind behind the game to make it look like that.
The best option in my opinion would be to have some discussions with the old members (Futatsugi among other people) to see what they wanted to convey. Focusing only on what the old Panzer looks like is not the smartest thing imo.
Because the original game looks choppy as hell so guys, maybe let’s stop extra nostalgy of the original game. I love that series but come on, the reveal trailer looks so much better than most of us were expecting, let’s appreciate that and see where we can improve.
Some of the negative feedback here is baffling me.
I’m not hating or trying to provide negative feedback. I want this game to be as good as it can be, but I think you’re missing my point.
Yes, there was a lot of technical limitations at the time but I believe this level was designed this way on purpose. There are other levels in the game that are way more populated by assets than this one.
PD games are know for this specific kind of levels that are very “painterly” (for the lack of a better word) in which you see the horizon and a lot sky. This one of those levels. This not an “action” level, It’s not a dramatic level, it’s an “enjoy the ride” level. Just listen to the music.
I believe they missed that point. The way it is right now it’s not pleasant. It’s claustrophobic, I can’t see the sky, It’s packed with assets placed everywhere, the time of day is completely different and so is the mood.
The devs have plenty of levels to go crazy and I think they can look great, like the forest in Zwei for example, but sometimes less is more and this is one of those cases.
Take a look at these examples:
And now look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIMO4sTktEI
This is where I’m trying to get.
Yea, I know. At least YOU are being constructive and share feedback with the producer.
But I mean we could have NOTHING. Remember this. Land Ho was not going to make this in a millions years, nor any other developer. I watched your examples and I agree for the most part but these were very established franchises which sold a lot more. The remakes were produced accordingly. Now, I think we need to try and help them improve to your liking/to what you think is best for the game, where possible.
You’re right about that. Couldn’t agree more.
That’s an excellent breakdown of how the developers missed the artistic intent behind the first level. The impression I had is that they wanted to show of their graphics engine, but didn’t realize that it wasn’t just the limited technical capabilities that caused the area to look like it did. It was supposed to be a large body of water with only remnants of man-made buildings sticking out of the water.
All in all the first game is arguably the least important Panzer Dragoon game so I’d rather have them make mistakes now and get Zwei right. I’m curious to see the approach they took with the other areas though.
As for no other developer making this game: if anything Forever Entertainment remaking the PD games was a lot less likely than Futatsugi getting to remake the PD games. I really expected Futatsugi to get the license from SEGA much like how Yu Suzuki got the license for Shenmue 3, Tetsuya Mizuguchi got the license for Rez Infinite and (not in the least) Yukio Futatsugi’s own Grounding inc. is now working on Space Channel 5 VR. Yukio Futatsugi also sounded a bit bitter in that recent video when he said he wasn’t informed of the remakes.
A sub-par view of the series is exactly what concerns me. Sometimes it’s better to leave a legacy as it is rather than tarnish it, even if you don’t get new content.
Saying that, I was stoked to see Panzer Dragoon get some love again. I hadn’t read anything, what a surprise. I’ll likely give this a go and I’m looking forward to seeing what they do with Zwei. I have a lot of love for Zwei. Will we get a scoreboard for levels/runs similar to Nights into Dreams? That’d be great.
Seing how ShenMue3 is turning into a disaster, it might actually be a good thing that things happen in this order. I’m not sure how Futatsugi would have made the remakes, crowdfunded ?
Maybe this happened because FE’s studio pitched SEGA a demo and it impressed them. Now the other way around, SEGA commissioning Grounding might have given us results we wouldn’t have liked. Don’t get me wrong, I still think Futstaugi has to be involved in the remake of SAGA especially (they might add the extra content that was removed due to storage limitations) but I think he and his former Andromeda colleagues should be involved for the art and story but not for the execution as at the moment I’m not sure his studio is capable of delivering what the series need.
Now, it might be different if these two remakes sell decently and get traction. SEGA or SEGA & FE might do a partnership with Grounding or Futatsugi alone + a few ex Andromeda members as advisors might do the SAGA remake.
Futatsugi said in an interview
" “If those sell well, it’s always possible that there might be a chance for something new to happen with that series,” Futatsugi said. “I’d be lying if I said there wasn’t a part of me considering approaching Sega for the license to Panzer Dragoon.”
So he is interested in making something new, a new game in the series, not necessarily the remakes. (we still need his input for SAGA). I’m pretty sure the petition we pitched him served at least a little in re building his interest in the series.
I think there is still time to reconnect all the pieces and people. I hope so at least.
While the Epic exclusivity deal is no doubt a disaster, I’m surprised to see generally positive receptions from the people who played Shenmue 3 at E3. I was honestly expecting a broken, unfinished game at this point, so it’s actually looking better than I had expected.
As for being unsure Grounding Inc has what it takes: they have key members from Team Andromeda, and Futatsugi still has close connections to SEGA of Japan and other SEGA icons like Tetsuya Mizuguchi (Rez). And they already worked on a rail shooter in the form of Crimson Dragon (which would have turned out to be a better game if it hadn’t been for some unfortunate business decisions from Microsoft). Who could possibly claim to be in a better position to remake Panzer Dragoon? Meanwhile, Forever Entertainment is only really know for Fear Effect Sedna, which wasn’t exactly received well. Nobody predicted FE of all companies to get the Panzer Dragoon license, and I think it’s perfectly normal to be wary of how they’re going to handle the Panzer Dragoon franchise, especially without input from the people that actually worked on the original games.
That’s not to say it can’t turn out to be a good thing. Streets of Rage 4 is looking great in my opinion, and barely anyone had heard of the 3 companies making it. But that team is actually making levels and implementing things based on the original design documents of Streets of Rage 2. So far, Forever Entertainment doesn’t seem to have much, if any, access to basic assets (sound effects) or documentation. We don’t know how much they’re interested in the story and the world of Panzer Dragoon, or if they just want to focus on making a good railshooter. I hope they can still do both, but hearing them say that they need to alter the original level design because “players request nice and detailed backgrounds today” is rather worrying. I also found it to be a really odd thing to say when you consider that they reveal the game on the Switch, which is known for games that value artistic direction over graphical prowess. The gameplay trailer was far from achieving a constant 60fps for that matter, so it’s not like they had room to spare for the added details. And there’s the example of Panzer Dragoon Orta’s episode 5, which was somewhat of an homage to the first episode of the original game (possibly even set in the same location). They didn’t add more details even though they could have.
Anyway, long story short, I’m worried about the remakes. We still haven’t seen much, and to their credit the developers seem passionate about what they’re doing and they put a lot of work in already. I don’t want to draw conclusions this early when so much still has to be revealed. And I’m fully aware that the majority of people who’ll play the game won’t care about many of the details that worry me. But we’re relatively close to release already, so I’d rather send constructive feedback now in the hopes that they take it into account during development.
As for the future, if the remakes end up doing well, I’m all for Futatsugi working with them. I do regret that he was sidelined for this project. It’s not like they’re unable to contact him. I kind of still hope they reconsider and get him involved. If I was asked to work on a remake, I’d certainly be looking to ask input from the very people that created the franchise.
I think the new art direction is growing on me. It’s warmer, more vibrant, a bit more surreal. And I like that. I don’t think I’d be too distraught if it stayed just the way it is.
I don’t think the PD series was meant to look photorealistic. It always had sort of a hand painted, on the fringes of being subtly cell shaded, kind of aesthetic. I would have been mortified if it had an uninspired plastic looking, mainstream look.
Also, I think the first level in the remake is at dusk or sunset? So, they might have been going for a different mood regarding this level, considering how outdated the graphics are in the original.
I would have felt better if Grounding and Land Ho were handling the remake. Both studios have ex TA staff , also Long Ho did a great job with the Sega Ages version
Agreed. Sega have a bad track record for hiring the wrong companies to make remakes of their games.
As for the trailer; I understand wanting to modernise it. But why is the colour palette so fugly? Whether you’re targetting a new audience or the hardcore fans, however you look at it, the game looks drab. This isn’t want modern audiences want to see.
What more can they do with a bunch of ruins and water? It’s like you guys are asking for some kind of divine masterpiece…
“Earthly” is the term I would use to describe Panzer Dragoon’s colour palette. There’s the sense from the colour palette that the games take place in a desolate world. Instead, the trailer is hyper-colourful with bloom everywhere. The orange in the dragon’s wing is almost fluorescent.
The main thing fans have been concerned about here is how it makes sense from a historical point of view. What would the city have looked like before it was sunken? Do cities normally have lots of rock formations in them? Does it even need elements added, or would an empty world that uses open space well (see Journey, Shadow of the Colossus) better convey the post apocalyptic mood?
Which is why this new team like the one that did the SOTC remake are misinterpriting Team Andromeda’s work. Bluepoint added a bunch of filler within Team ICOs world that gave the remake almost a different tone. Same thing with this PD remake.
I hate when a completely new team takes control of a beloved franchise without at least consulting the original team members.
I’ve already talked a bit about the Shadow of the Colossus remake, but for what it’s worth, I liked what they did with that remake a lot more than what I’m seeing in this trailer. Hopefully they’ll have time to fix some basic issues like the colour palette at least.
I want it to be very faithful also, but I think I am ok with some of the visual differences as long as gameplay and story is consistent. It is exciting as I feel it is going to be good for the community. New players joining us and hopefully leading to more visibility for the series.
On a side note, it would be really great if they included an emulated version of the originals with each of the new versions as part of the release. Saturn emulation has come a long way and is very accurate these days. Including the classic version would be a good way for satisfying original fans/purists.
I one up that frelled. Actually, the higher rez PS2 re-release, or the PC version of the original might be better. Even on the smaller Switch screen, the first game would seem a blocky mess.
I need to mention that my previous post was too negative. In spite of what I said, Im still excited to play this remake. As long as they dont completely mess up the controls, it should be a fun ride.
I do, however, already really, REALLY hope they include the original soundtrack. I can’t play the rereleased Onimusha or Spyro titles because they composed new music.
Finally, there needs to be more than the standard arcade mode in this re-release. I’m not precisely sure what they ought to include as well, other than a level select, but there needs to be some extra modes to up the longevity of the title. Perhaps some bonus side missions where they reuse the levels, but taking different routes, different enemy layouts, etc.
I agree, it does need some kind of new mode. We’re all going to beat this in one play session. It’ll only take a few hours…So, maybe include a mode in which we unlock things for Pandora’s Box? Having to get certain high scores, or completing certain extra objectives.
Or have an extra level where we do said objectives in a new unique way. They could take inspiration from Moebius’ artwork and craft a unique level…
It would also be cool if this game or in Zwei remake, they have a hub village you can walk around in. Where in-between levels we can talk to inhabitants and apply certain attributes to our dragon. Sort of like “very light” rpg elements. That would be awesome! And it would give it that Panzer Dragoon Saga feel.