MS used to use p2p they now like SONY use dedicated servers for the One and yes it costs both corps a lot of money and unlike with the PC cheats can get banned and so on . Steam is a different model and not 100% the same .
MS to overcharge for LIVE though.
in 20 years time I doubt the Harddrive in many games consoles will work and in 20 years time I doubt I’ll really care about my 360 . Let me tell you I’ve had far more HD failers with the PC (and all my data gone) than with a console.
There’s plenty of emu roms for the consoles and its not like one can back up an original PC game and if the likes of Valve go bust you can kiss good bye to Steam and your games too. To me you’re looking for issues that aren’t there
Spoken like someone who doesn’t know what gaming on PC is like beyond the surface.
But still judges it just to promote what he happens to have chosen for himself.
Actually yes, in many cases you can back up original PC games. Like, everything bought from gog, tons of indie games, every Steam game that doesn’t actually use the Steam DRM and many other cases. Having to crack the rest cases doesn’t make it any less viable so that’s not an argument either. Yes, there are exceptions, as everywhere.
Yes, cheaters are banned on PC too. Yes, there are exceptions, as everywhere. Usually when the game is so old it’s no longer officially supported to that extent but at least you can still play it and find friendly cheater free communities rather than have a complete shutdown.
Yes, on Steam you might lose access to re-download your games (that you can still back up and crack if they don’t come through with their promise of unlocking everything before that ever happens) if the company actually shuts down, not if they suddenly decide your games are too old. Yes, there may be exceptions, as everywhere.
Dedicated servers as offered by console first parties don’t offer the benefits the way it’s commonly done on PC does and for some players may even offer a worse experience than peer to peer connections since unlike PC they’re not going to be found in pretty much every location anywhere but only where there are Microsoft, Sony and their partners headquarters.
Having a chosen few retro re-releases on consoles is also nothing like the emulation scene on PC, it’s just some chosen few ports in comparison, no different to any re-release.
Obviously bad practices occur on PC too. Some companies have used restrictive DRM in the past, others have stopped offering dedicated servers in their games, others made their games so they couldn’t be supported by the community after they decide to cut support, then there are games that are sold like a service like MMORPGs and that obviously leads to shut down at some point as well and so on. But in the grand scheme of things, on PC being unable to play a game for such reasons is still the exception rather than the rule and you don’t have one company enforcing it on every release by way of a platform feature.
And no, the fact they spend money to make features that attract consumers to buying their consoles and games and therefor profiting doesn’t mean it’s reasonable to ask money separately for every feature on top of that. I wasn’t asked to pay a yearly fee to google for their search and other services, to facebook for their profile and social services, or to Steam for letting me re-download my games as many times as I see fit on any number of systems I own, use server browsing, match making, online leaderboards and all sorts of other things, all of which require a massive infrastructure of servers even if the actual playing servers are by users. Sometimes it’s justified, as in the case of an MMORPG, others it isn’t, as in the case of XBL/PSN, hence how they try to justify it with “free” games, as if they couldn’t offer the service for free and let me decide what games I want to buy myself.
Of course you won’t find issue with everything others do, but saying something objective like how frelled speaks of issues that “are not there” just because subjectively you couldn’t care less about playing older games or having to pay for everything or whatever else is silly.
Well try I’ve been a PC gamer since the early 1990’s and have quite a few old Dos CD rom games that wont play on my Windows 8 , never mind that most PC’s don’t support flopy’s (and yes I still habe some games on floopy ) I have a pretty good collection of PC games in fact
Try no. I’ve bought the orginal DVD copys of the likes of Crysis 3,2 1 Dirt 3, Alien series (just to name a new over the last year or so ) and no I can’t back them up, my Battlefield 3/4 games will be no god what so ever in EA and Orign goes belly up . My COD and Medal Of Honour can’t be backed up never mind that those games also need a code to run .
So there’s plenty of issues with PC games too .
Unless you log in you can’t play Steam games so you can kiss goodbye to any collection one might have and the same goes for Orign
That is all up to the good will of the community . Too many cheats with PC games these days . Rather LIVE or PSN where a ban for the entire serveice is far more of a threat thatn for just one game
[quote]Having a chosen few retro re-releases on consoles is also nothing like the emulation scene on PC, it’s just some chosen few ports in comparison, no different to any re-release.
[/quote]
In may have exscaped your notice but pretty much every Mega Drive, Master System , Gear Gear games are back up on-line and the same goes for most of the retro consoles . Its a non issue and in 20 years time most will not want to be playing old 360 or PS3 games I’m willing to bet
[quote]Well try I’ve been a PC gamer since the early 1990’s and have quite a few old Dos CD rom games that wont play on my Windows 8 , never mind that most PC’s don’t support flopy’s (and yes I still habe some games on floopy ) I have a pretty good collection of PC games in fact
[/quote]
#1, Windows 8 is new and a large issue in general. #2, List your old Dos game that you can’t get working and I will bet that there are instructions somewhere online that will get it working.
[quote]Try no. I’ve bought the orginal DVD copys of the likes of Crysis 3,2 1 Dirt 3, Alien series (just to name a new over the last year or so ) and no I can’t back them up, my Battlefield 3/4 games will be no god what so ever in EA and Orign goes belly up . My COD and Medal Of Honour can’t be backed up never mind that those games also need a code to run .
So there’s plenty of issues with PC games too .
[/quote]
Your problem is you are buying EA games, and online shooters with no real storyline to speak of.
2nd, Crysis 1 doesn’t have DRM, only Warhead, so your fabricating game titles to try and prove your point. Alien series games have no DRM unless your counting the last one released by Gearbox. If so…I don’t usually bash ones personal taste, but if you liked that game…
You obviously haven’t played Gears or COD on live. That was a glitch/hack fest from the start and they never resolved any of the issues permanently. Rarely was someone banned for glitching either. I would rather play any of these types of games on a private server where I don’t have to wait months for the devs to fix these exploits. Private server and admin usually equals quick ban for cheaters. It is a fallacy to keep regurgitating that cheating doesn’t occur on consoles or that PC gaming is full of cheaters. I play Counterstrike multiple times a week and haven’t seen a cheater in months.
I understand English isn’t your first language, as it isn’t mine, but this isn’t a lack of understanding, it’s just plain bullshit, avoiding to reply to the real points and selectively quoting a few bits and pieces to divert attention from the important parts. Why bother at all?
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]
Try no. I’ve bought the orginal DVD copys of the likes of Crysis 3,2 1 Dirt 3, Alien series (just to name a new over the last year or so ) and no I can’t back them up, my Battlefield 3/4 games will be no god what so ever in EA and Orign goes belly up . My COD and Medal Of Honour can’t be backed up never mind that those games also need a code to run.[/quote]
What you quoted said “many cases” not “all cases” and if that wasn’t clear enough, I added “there are exceptions” after that. Why bother posting some of these exceptions? I know they exist. Do you want me to start posting a list of games that can be backed up? There isn’t enough space on this forum for it, lol.
By the way, more often than not you can back up from your DVDs, you may just need a crack after install if you use the backup rather than the original disc to authenticate and play, although many games have had official no-cd patches some time after their release too. Look for guides online, there are plenty. Basically, the same way people put pirated copies online (another morally fine option so long as you own the game in question if it’s too much work for you) you can make backups out of your own stuff for your own use.
Yes, I’ve said that, but at least they’re not platform-wide and if you can do without this or that specific game you can buy thousands of others that don’t have the issues. And often times the same games too, just from a different service (for example the games that happen to be available on gog as well as Steam).
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]
Unless you log in you can’t play Steam games so you can kiss goodbye to any collection one might have and the same goes for Orign[/quote]
Again.
See, the important part was after the part you quoted.
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]
That is all up to the good will of the community .[/quote]
Yes, that was the point, on PC such things to happen. And again, it’s better to be able to play a game and having to search for cheat-free communities than be unable to play at all because a company decided it’s too old (which as said can happen on PC too, usually with multi platform games).
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]
In may have exscaped your notice but pretty much every Mega Drive, Master System , Gear Gear games are back up on-line and the same goes for most of the retro consoles . Its a non issue and in 20 years time most will not want to be playing old 360 or PS3 games I’m willing to bet[/quote]
No, it did not escape my notice, it just didn’t happen. Only a few popular games are getting re-reelases like that on consoles, and you have to pay for them on top of that whether you owned them or not.
Unless you mean grey area roms on PC, then yes, everything is online, once again thanks to PC (whether it’s used for piracy makes no difference, as an owner of something you can easily preserve it and play it long after your console dies thanks to that), not thanks to consoles. Sadly recent consoles are going to be practically impossible to emulate in this manner so the same can’t be said for them.
The only good efforts for retro games on consoles are Sony’s PS1 games and Nintendo’s VC releases but both fall way short of offering everything, I don’t know what you’re on about. Plus there’s no guarantee of future compatibility even for those which are online, just as downloadable (and retail) games of the last generation (ps360) aren’t compatible with only one generation after them (ps4/xbone).
We’re not discussing what “most people” may want, none of us tried to survey gamers before posting to claim such things, we’re posting our own opinions and preferences, and you argued against’s frelled’s personal choice and preference, not over what strangers may want to do.
There are issues with consoles (and with PC, just not as many as you want to claim and with benefits on top of them), whether you care about them or not, they are there for others and that’s all they said. You can argue they’re not an issue for you (just as we argue the issues with PC gaming don’t beat the benefits), however you simply can’t argue they aren’t issues at all, end of story.
everything else I said + my comment before your first, + frelled’s points. You have had no argument for the bulk of our posts, now you’ll once again quote a few bits and pieces you can have an opinion against and pretend with that you’ve covered everything when you leave most things and most important things 100% unchallenged.
As for your DOS games on Windows 8, try DOSBOX and ask people for configuration advice, if that wasn’t obvious. I’ve not had issues with any games myself (and as a more official testament to that gog.com’s catalogue has hundreds of re-releases that rely on dosbox) but hey, it could be your luck. As I kept saying, there always are exceptions.
Its been an issue with each new Windows I remember MS going on about how XP was made with older games in mind (dos) but the likes of Dracula Unleashed , TFX, Jurrasic Park , Inferno, Gabriel knight wouldn’t work
I don’t really care for a storyline in a FPS, care far more about the AI and level desgin.
My Alien Marines is linked to my Steam and my Crysis games are all Orgin account . Can’t log in I can’t play the games . This isn’t just about being able to install the game on more than 1 PC.
I have and really don’t care for them. Sure, there’s cheats on there, but some of the more outlandish mods tend to get found out pretty soon . On the PC some of the cheats really liked the likes of Quake 3 or PSO for me .
I just making the point that most retail based PC games bought through retail can not be backed up at all .
[quote] you may just need a crack/
[/quote]
Again, there’s a workaround. I gather it’s still possible to play DC PSO if you know how, and there’s work around for XBox games on LIVE that have long shut down . I’m sure I read people still playing Phantom Dust on the XBox through means of a Hang and using LAN.
Well I have the Everdrive for my Mega Drive and downloaded pretty much every MD rom ever made . No need to worry about re-releases.
[/quote]
PS games are easy to copy and back up and its even better with Mega CD games as you don’t need have the machine moded to play copys . In most cases a simple mod chip and you can copy and back up all your console games .
If I have to put up with Steam being the benchmark of how to buy games for PC, I’ll stick to consoles.
If PC’s remain bigger than a typical games console, I won’t buy one.
Most games exclusive to PC these days, IMO, are terrible. Crappy indie games i.e. low-rate 2D platformers, relying on flashy style over gameplay, convoluted RTS style games, grinding style games, etc.
PC is still too inconvenient for many, lacks support from many devs that matter, and for the majority have games that cater to a different market than console gamers. Games consoles are here for the foreseeable future, and if they do go away, it’ll be replaced by the smartphone market, which either evolves or amalgamates itself with the home console market somehow.
Well since TA has gone on his usual cover-my-ears-and-yell-lalalalalala rants completely ignoring pretty much the majority of points made, which means for the replies he needs he can just read the previous comments as they cover everything, I’ll reply to you.
Firstly, you don’t say what you find wrong with the way you buy games on Steam. I’m going to assume the restriction that comes with digital only goods but in an age where even single player phystical retail games come with one time use codes and content locked behind online structures it doesn’t really lack much and has plenty benefits, from pricing & convenience to sharing. Although I wouldn’t say Steam is a benchmark, it’s just a very popular choice, which is why more and more games use it. It’s a people’s request if you will. You don’t have to agree and thankfully for many games there are other choices (but for others there aren’t, just as for some games you can choose what console to get them on but for others you can’t, although at least you don’t have to buy a different PC to use Steam). Plus, Valve have yet to fail anyone with making a purchased game unavalaible for any reason so in that they’re better than any digital distribution service, console platform holders included.
Secondly, there are small form PCs, you can build one or have one assembled usually at all the same places that sell components for the big ones, you just choose a mini case you like and a mini ITX motherboard that has the features you need for your chosen components and you’re set. It might take some market research yes, the humanity. Fitting some dual GPU setup in one might be a stretch but other than that they should be as capable as any.
Thirdly, you don’t have to like PC exclusives but labeling all of them as 2nd rate indie platformers, convoluted strategy games, or grindy is beyond ignorant, silly and just way out there like a horrible alternate reality I want no part in, while the style over substance accusation fits much more with the average multiplatform AAA games which are prelevant on consoles as well as PC. In short, lay off the crack and don’t be so aggressive and accuse every PC gamer of having objectively shitty taste just to show you prefer consoles as if your preference has to make them the ultimate choice for anyone who is smart enough to see it.
Fourthly, yes, PC gaming is inconvenient for PC illiterate people, thankfully those get fewer by the years and more and more people become aware that the PC can be exactly what they want out of it and not what they happened to see at some super geek’s basement or at the other end of the spectrum some random family member’s weak and abused laptop. But no, it doesn’t lack support (in general) any more than consoles lack support from other developers that also matter, but in recent times both have been changing, with previously console only developers going PC and previously PC only developers going console (sadly in the latter case it often comes packaged with dumbing down, another fact going right against the idea that PC games lack substance when substance needs to be taken out for the console sequels to be appealing to the mistreated target market, but oh well, there are exceptions and some times streamlining is successful while if not there are other games to play instead).
Well at least I didn’t see the “you have to pay $2000 for a half decent PC” argument so yay.
Bottom line is, of all you have written, putting my points together, it still stands that for many people, PC gaming isn’t for everyone, therefore, home consoles are not irrelevant and they’re still the better choice for many gamers, and will be for the foreseeable future.
As for my third point, I wrote “IMO”, therefore I wasn’t stating as fact, just my personal preference. I think the majority of exclusive PC games are crap, as do many people out there. Hence why I wrote:
It’s just like some people out there think the Panzer Dragoon games are crap. I don’t have any beef with them for thinking so, and you shouldn’t have any beef with what I think about PC games.
But, heck, continue to write your essays, trying to convert the world to your preference in gaming. It will only to serve to prove you are the ignorant and aggressive one here. Not me. <3
If you think that was an essay then I don’t wanna see how you wrote yours. If someone wrote the Panzer Dragoon games (especially as a whole, considering how different some are the same reason could not apply to all) are crap I would correct them also and state that the fact they don’t like them doesn’t mean they’re crap. Hiding behind the opinion tag to spew such ignorant bullshit isn’t okay, no. It’s not for me, I don’t like games that are such and such (with such and such preferably not being thinly veiled insults towards anyone who might have liked any games that even resembled it but instead some factual characteristics) or whatever other valid argument isn’t the same as saying everything is a 2d indie platform game (a low rate one at that) or a convoluted game or a grindy game or whatever and all of it with style over substance. Also, I never tried to convert anyone to anything, I just corrected misconceptions (like the form factor of PC s in your case) and called them out on bullshit (like what games exist as PC exclusives in your case). Take your own advice, lol.
There isn’t a console game around that needs a one time code to play the single player mode . Sure there’s exclusive codes for Pre order bonus or a Limited edition but that’s not quite the same .
In 20 years time you or I don’t know that Valve will still be around - thats the point
Way to miss the point . Its not about the size of the PC at all. With any console one buys you know it will work on your TV and you know that no matter when you bought the console in question , every game will run on it and look the same regardless of it you bought it on launch or 5 years down the line . That isn’t the case with the PC as PC’s will have different operating systems , different graphics cards , different controls, didn’t Ram levels and different sound system - Hell I had issues trying to get my Radion HD 7900 series to play sound through HDMI .
That is key differences with a console and PC’s and why they’ll always be room for both.
I think so far the discussion in this topic has outlined lots of reasons why some consumers would buy a console over a PC. Particularly for three reasons - price, exclusives, and the fixed configuration of consoles.
I’d like the move the discussion in the direction where we discuss why a particular type of gamer might prefer a console over a PC. The type of gamer who would frequent forums, play a large selection of games, and has some technical ability to work around the occasional issue if something goes wrong (not that this is desired). I would consider myself this type of gamer, and probably many here would fit this description.
I think price can be a strong argument for this type of gamer to prefer purchasing a console. Exclusives too might sway this type of gamer if the exclusive is important enough. But besides these two points, does the modern console offer anything significant over the PC?
Easy of use and knowing that every game will run and look the same on the console in question that will always be the console main advantage over the PC. PC’s have got much easier to use, but they still aren’t anywhere near the easy of use of a console
Teenage kids and serious games are more likely to go for consoles I would say
Um, please read previous comments before replying as I already suggested.
Nothing more to add, it’s all been covered even if you choose to ignore it hoping that your ignorant statements will stick and overtake reality just by being numerous and persistent.
[quote=“Solo Wing”]
I think price can be a strong argument for this type of gamer to prefer purchasing a console. Exclusives too might sway this type of gamer if the exclusive is important enough. But besides these two points, does the modern console offer anything significant over the PC?[/quote]
I don’t think price is really a consideration this generation. With MS pricing their console at $500 US, you could easily build a full functioning PC at around that price (including Windows) that would perform better than either of the new consoles at 1080p. You would then also gain all the functionality of a full fledged PC.
Not much can be said about exclusives though. I think that this is where consoles get their biggest advantage from. I would really love to play Destiny, but it is console only. As for the other exclusives, I think Sony will have the advantage here.
I know that I kind of regret buying a 360 just for the fact that all the games that I personally really cared about are also available for much cheaper on the PC. This is the biggest factor for me being that I have a family and can’t spend $60 dollars for every game I want. Sales on GOG, Steam, and HumbleBundle have allowed me to amass a selection that is just astounding, from new to classic titles. Every single game I purchased at full retail price on the 360 I now own for the PC for less than $10 dollars for each game. While I am not the typical hardcore gamer, I still spend a lot of money and time on games. The value I get by being a PC gamer is fantastic.
I also think the variety of selection is better on the PC. This has only gotten better with Kickstarter and crowdfunding. Would I have the opportunity to play new titles like Eternity, Tides, or Grimrock with old school gameplay mechanics on the console? Probably not because these type of games don’t sell like Halo. That isn’t a diss at Halo or games of that type, I always say the more the merrier. I just like that the PC offers these types of games a home.
There is a distinct genre advantage on the PC also, especially in Strategy and FPS games. Starcraft doesn’t work on a controller. FPS do-ish, but really they were conceived of for mouse and keyboard. You can’t beat that precision with a controller. This is of course subjective. If you prefer controllers, you still can hook up a 360 controller to a PC. I carry one around with my laptop all the time for playing platform games such as Bastion or Rocket Knight.
I think that is really the biggest reason to game on a PC though, choice. You have choice of provider, choice of DRM free or not. You can get indie games or AAA titles. You can use the input device of your choice. You can also justify some of the cost of a PC for work purposes. You can game without having to pay fees (MMO gaming aside, though that is changing also). You can play modded games or not.
Yes, you can get a console that for the most part just works (ignoring BF4 issues accross the board). You are then locked to that console where you have to pay to play online, you have to pay to watch Netflix again (MS sucks for this), you have to pay higher game title costs for longer…and so on.
Just to set the record straight, I was a huge console owner along with PC gamer. I have owned a console every generation since the SMS. Sometimes I owned multiple consoles in a generation. This is the first one that I have decided to skip. I just don’t think the value is there. Maybe that is because my taste in games is changing, but I do think my reasoning is valid for a lot of people on the fence.
I have and size isn’t a factor really . Its more about the easy of use and the fact that no matter when you buy the console in question every game will run and look the same for owners of that console . I very much doubt us here on this board have the exact same spec PC, on a console that isn’t the case; That the console pro and also its con .
Then you haven’t. Again, I was talking to someone for whom size was a factor, and you told me “way to miss the point”. Whether you think size is or isn’t a factor doesn’t mean I missed the point when replying to someone who thought size is a factor. Jesus, it’s really simple.
[quote=“Terramax”]- If I have to put up with Steam being the benchmark of how to buy games for PC, I’ll stick to consoles.
If PC’s remain bigger than a typical games console, I won’t buy one.
Most games exclusive to PC these days, IMO, are terrible. Crappy indie games i.e. low-rate 2D platformers, relying on flashy style over gameplay, convoluted RTS style games, grinding style games, etc.
PC is still too inconvenient for many, lacks support from many devs that matter, and for the majority have games that cater to a different market than console gamers. Games consoles are here for the foreseeable future, and if they do go away, it’ll be replaced by the smartphone market, which either evolves or amalgamates itself with the home console market somehow.[/quote]
Just read back to this post…
You don’t like Steam but you are okay with Sony and MS price gouging you with their online systems? You think MS with their DRM filled system is better? You have to go through hoops to transfer your legitimately purchased online content to a new console? My launch unit died, my brothers launch 360 died, we both had to go through the process. If your PC dies, you can easily just redownload and install your games from Steam. A large portion have cloud save storage now so you don’t even have to worry about losing your game progress. Regardless, if you don’t like Steam, try GOG.com.
PC’s don’t have to be bigger than consoles. In fact, you can build a Mini-ITX or Mini-ATX PC that is easily more powerful than either of the new consoles and smaller. Hell, I have a Clevo W110er that is my primary laptop that is tiny and packs a quad core I7 with a Geforce 650m. This setup is as fast, if not faster, than both the current consoles when it comes to game performance. I can also take it with me most anywhere. Size is not an issue in the PC vs Console debate.
Your argument for crappy indy games is your own personal opinion. Some of the best games I played this last gen were indie titles like Legend of Grimrock, Kingdom Rush, Bastion, and countless others. While I don’t like Minecraft, it is probably the biggest example of indy success.
As for smartphones, they will replicate PC’s more than home consoles. Nobody wants a phone that doesn’t allow them to access their content on Facebook, etc. If anything, as phones get more powerful, they may further take on the role of small form factor PC’s that offer the ability to install all types of software for productivity and gaming. Consoles may not be going anywhere, but they are an increasingly irrelevant portion of the gaming market.
Both SONY and MS offer clouds saves for their consoles and I’ve had a number of 360’s and its not really that much of an issue seeing as the Gard Drive with in both the 360 and PS3 were removable and unlike Nintendo the content you bought on-line not tide to that console.
Is the desktop PC that suffering that and that’s reflected in development and retail support for PC games . Consoles on the other hand are enjoying great sales , already both the PS4 and XBox have sold millions with Sony more than most enjoying amazing sales of 4 million plus .l
