Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Spoilers)

Episode 8 has its work cut out for it to fix some of the issues with episode 7. I think it’s possible that episode 8 can improve and give further depth to these new characters and stories, especially as it will have a different director and thus a different approach. After all, we learn a lot more about Darth Vader’s backstory in episode 5 than was previously revealed in episode 4. I think we’ll learn more about the relationship between Luke and Kylo that will put some of the events of episode 7 into perspective.

The problematic characters are Rey and Kylo. Rey is a little too perfect so far; they need to give her some flaws and vulnerabilities. Kylo seems too weak. Give him more training and stronger abilities, or something else that will make his character more interesting.

Regarding the new “Death Star”, I’m not entirely opposed to it (it makes sense for evil empires to want to build something bigger and badder), but they could done something more interesting with it. Perhaps the Resistance could have taken control of Starkiller Base at the end of episode 7, rather than destroying it. Then we could have had an interesting narrative about how wielding that kind of power acts as a temptation, especially if in the hands of someone growing powerful with the force. Since the base was destroyed, now we’re left with a gap that will need to be filled with some other threat in episodes 8 and 9.

I couldn’t resist… :anjou_love:

Ha, the Panzer Dragoon intro actually fits perfectly in that format!

Anyway, building that Starkiller base/Death Star and destroying it was too similar to A New Hope. They even had a meeting trying to figure out its weakness…

Like you said, they could have captured it and took control. And now there will be a gap to fill. So, what are they going to do? Are they going to build another Death Star? That’s what they did in the original trilogy. I hope they think of something original this time.

And regarding Ray. The audience is supposed to relate to her. If she has no weaknesses, you can’t project your own weakness on to her, thus feeling no emotional connection. It sort of turns her into a Mary Sue, someone who can do no wrong; essentially perfect in every way. In the movie she got the best scrap, escaped on her own, and single handedly almost defeated Kylo Ren!

Damn, now I feel like playing Knights of the Old Republic again. That was such a great Star Wars game!

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Me too, actually. And rewatching the other films. And rewatching this film…

I recommend machete order.

I watched The Force Awakens again recently. The issues I mentioned earlier are much more transparent the second time around. Once you take off the nostalgia goggles off you’ll find a story that is very similar to A New Hope to point where the story is basically a cut and paste job with gender roles changed around.

I think in the fullness of time people are going to realise that the film was in many ways a lot worse than the prequels. Those films at least had a story of their own to tell that, while the execution wasn’t always well done, felt like part of the Star Wars history. The politics and connections to the original trilogy generally added depth to overall saga’s story and those films weren’t afraid to have an identity of their own.

If you haven’t heard of Ring Theory before, I recommend reading this rather lengthy article that convincingly explains how the prequels were constructed to mirror the original trilogy in reverse order:

There’s a careful deliberateness behind the prequel trilogy which comes from the vision of a director attempting to tell a six part story rather than a commitee attempting to check all the right boxes.

The trailer for the next Star Wars film, Rouge One, is out by the way:

It looks decent. I fear from the imagery that, like The Force Awakens, there won’t be much new added to the universe though. I hope I’m wrong.

There is a very real danger that Star Wars will become like the Marvel franchise. Solid enough films, but flat and repetitive. Star Wars needs to introduce new worlds, creatures, ships, themes, and most importantly stories to stay fresh.

I completely agree with you Solo. When I notice a beloved franchise is losing its soul, or depth of creativity, I really start to worry…

I wish they would have just done a variation of the Thrawn series. It was enthrawling, unlike this movie. They better have something interesting with the next one.

I haven’t read any of the novels… didn’t they bring back characters from the dead? One thing that The Force Awakens got right: dead characters stayed dead. Vader, Obi-wan, Yoda, Palpatine - those stories arcs were completed in Jedi.

Not in the Thrawn series. Some of the later novels don’t have the same level of quality and detail that the Thrawn trilogy manages, but they were light years (pun intended) ahead of this latest sequel.

Abrams actually addresses this point in this interview. While you can debate whether or not it was the right choice (I don’t think it was), the fact that he acknowledges this suggests that he won’t be making the same mistake with the sequels.

That’s good to know. Although I’m not sure if JJ is involved with the sequels at all, going by the information in the interview it sounds like we’ll be seeing some fresh locales in episodes 8 and 9 at least.

I just watched the making of SW:TFA and Abrams stated: (don’ t quote me on this)

When Harrison broke his leg it gave us ample time to completely re-do and re-shoot important scenes between Rey and FIn. Allowing us to develop the chemistry that was severely lacking in my original shots. We were able to re-shoot those scenes and give them more feeling,

In other words: these characters had no chemistry and Abrams knew it. I still think they lack chemistry and FIn as a main hero, is severely lacking any emotional connection to the characters around him and the story…

In what ways can Fin develop? He has no objectives, hardships or goals to strive for:

Is he looking for his real parents? No.

Any long lost brother to find and redeem? No.

Was he tortured by a superior officer making him want revenge( or maybe this officer also killed Fin’s friend whom was like family) , ultimately choosing justice instead? No.

Is he searching for a place to call home or belong? Maybe, but all he is doing is running.

During his days as a stormtrooper did he almost violently, kill someone, and is hoping to make up for the viscous Imperial conditioning which his conscience told him was wrong? No.

All of these things of which I thought up in a mere 5 min. could have given his character more depth and something to strive for. Growing a little bit with each movie. All these weaknesses could have been executed with short flashbacks, some longer than others, and using existing characters such as Captain Phasma…

So all he is doing in the movie is choosing to run away…only stopping to fight because his life is in danger not because he cares. And if he does care, it feels contrived thus lacking chemistry…These weaknesses needed to be set up in the first movie. Now his character is going to drag along. If anything comes up concerning his growth as a character in the second movie, it’s going to take the last movie to resolve it. And that is not good character development or exposition. The same thing could be said for Mar Rey Sue. She is even worse…

Apparently, the plot has been leaked for Episode 8!

SPOILERS:

I’m a bit late to the party but I enjoyed the movie. I did wonder how Poe survived the crash and stuff but I just went for the MST3K mantra explanation (it’s just a show, don’t think about it too much). Rey was easily the best thing about the movie though.

In terms of Fin’s plot development, he just got his name at the start of the movie; emotionally and mentally he’s probably quite immature compared to when he was wearing the white suit. His character will likely develop over the course of the story.

If those rumors turn out to be true I really don’t know what to think anymore. In a sense, It’s just a repeat of the first trilogies story. Why undue everything the original trilogy resolved. There where so many new directions to go in. Almost anyone could have written a better story…

I doubt that leak is legitimate. Disney are evidently trying to distance themselves from the prequel trilogy with the winding down of the Clone Wars series and next to no prequel references in The Force Awakens or the Rouge One trailer. So having a central plot twist that is dependent on the prequel trilogy would go against that trend.

The Snoke = Darth Plagueis theory seems likely though. The music that plays in their respective scenes is the same and it would tie the stories together without requiring that the viewer watch the prequels (since Plagueis is only mentioned briefly in episode 3), rather than introducing a brand new enemy adhoc.

The Han Solo thing was leaked early, so I’d be weary about what we hear. It might come close to what we get. With that many people working on a movie, something is bound to surface when it’s not supposed to…

And also, isn’t the “Luke is Rey’s father” thing just a little too obvious? That’s why what was said in the leak makes a little more sense. Throwing something unexpected at the viewer rather than what they’re expecting…

In the second Force Awakens trailer, Luke says “The force is strong in my family. My father has, I have it, my sister has it, you have that power too.” It seems very likely that the words are directed at Rey, the latest member of the Skywalker family. I think the important question isn’t if Rey is Luke’s daughter, but why she was left behind on Jakku.