As you all know, Panzer Dragoon Orta and I aren’t exactly the best of friends. But what makes it so bad? It’ll post my dislikes later when it’s not 3:30am, but whatdid you dislike about it? Let’s be ruthless.
That statue. That hideous statue of the Seventh Emperor. There’s no excuse for giving him out of proportion breasts.
Saying that, I’m okay with most of the changes in Orta, but I think Shadow meant this topic for honest problems rather than a debate about what things worked/didn’t work, so I’m replying with one of my biggest grudges.
Well, really I want a topic that the developers of PDS2 could come along and look at to see what to take out of the series, so anything goes really.
The dragon designs! I mean the base wing worked, but Heavy wing and Glide wing looked to me really abstract. beetle like flying thingies. I am not complaining about the little claws at his wings (with the level of him running, it makes perfect sense anatomically) When you compare their designs to the SoloWing Dragon, Panzer Wing… etc… it took such a dramatic change. It felt like the dragon became more… machine like, more metallic looking anyways.
Although the light wing dragon in saga was accetable for me, that worked.
And yes Solo, that statue seemed a bit out of place.
The fact that the old battleships (Battleship Cruisers) can only be seen for a few brief moments. Nothing big really, but those ships are so unique in design that PD is not complete without them in it.
The smooth look of the engines, the statue solo mentioned, the airship with the claws flying around it, the controls (can’t explain, Zwei felt much nicer/tighter), the enemy patterns…that’s it for now…
PS: great avatar Atolm, Alucard just plain rocks in SOTN 
Heh, I guess I’m the only one who appreciates the statue boss. It’s clearly inspired by ancient ‘Venus’ statues which are the oldest known statuary ever discovered. Like the boss, they are abstracted human forms and quite bulbous in shape. This isn’t surprising as ancient art almost always had human beings depicted as more abstract than any other subject.
It’s unknown what the statues represent, but its theorized they were blessings for fertility. I guess that won’t sway anyone’s opinion, but now you know. 
Except that when I questioned it’s use of missile like projectiles as being a) not at all in the style of the Ancients and b) too big of a modification for the imperials to have installed it in by themselves, if I remember correctly, Abadd (the poster) confirmed it’s all created by the Empire rather than being an Ancient discovery… (Anyone, feel free to confirm otherwise if I’m mistaken on this)
i thought PDO was great D: <-(see that’s the opposite of 
which is the higher form of meaning that i am even more upset than 
and i think you’re all mean).
i’ll conceed the statue and the imperial city boss weren’t the coolest of designs. i thought the first level was kind of bland. the dragonmares were not of the PD style and their heads looked dopey in the ingame models. i wish there was more detail to the sea of ice/uru/wherever you are when you fight the els-enora (snow level boss). and the golia was much more badass looking than the catharp (ash level boss).
i do have a ton of positive things to say about it but i’ll hold my tongue.
self promotion: for an indepth analysis and explanation of the dragon designs of PDO, please refer to my lagi development theory
EDIT- and the music wasn’t as good. sometimes i just ROCK OUT to zwei but there were only a few songs in orta that sounded like actual music rather than just an ambient melody.
Madness. Orta is a master piece. It plays as good as it looks (still the best looking X-Box game).
The only bad parts were , the rather short Ep 9, and the fact that some levels used the same music (even though the music is class).
Sometimes the designs were a little too video-gamish.
I mean - a boss ship with claws is cool, but would someone really build such a monstrosity? The enemies would laugh. Here comes the Empire with its funny ships.
There were some of those in the other shooters, too.
My problem is, that this game did not tell enough new ideas for the series. We don’t get to know much more about the world, there are a bunch of interesting things hidden in the bonus levels and the texts in Pandoras Box - but why are they not part of the game?
Overall - you get a wonderful shooter with minor flaws in the world of Panzer Dragoon. It lacks story - but maybe that’s not a bad thing if it is meant to be the beginning of a new trilogy. Maybe there was not enough budget to tell the story we all wanted to hear.
Personally i would ditch the prerendered CG scenes for a few more lines of dialogue. But I think those scenes were needed to sell more copies.
[quote=“SenorKaffee”]Sometimes the designs were a little too video-gamish.
I mean - a boss ship with claws is cool, but would someone really build such a monstrosity? The enemies would laugh. Here comes the Empire with its funny ships.
There were some of those in the other shooters, too.
My problem is, that this game did not tell enough new ideas for the series. We don’t get to know much more about the world, there are a bunch of interesting things hidden in the bonus levels and the texts in Pandoras Box - but why are they not part of the game?
Overall - you get a wonderful shooter with minor flaws in the world of Panzer Dragoon. It lacks story - but maybe that’s not a bad thing if it is meant to be the beginning of a new trilogy. Maybe there was not enough budget to tell the story we all wanted to hear.
Personally i would ditch the prerendered CG scenes for a few more lines of dialogue. But I think those scenes were needed to sell more copies.[/quote]
Have you played the 1st two Panzer games??.
Please stop comparing ORTA to the likes of SAGA. Orta as more of a story than the 1st two games put together.
Have you seen the 1st Panzer game. That?s got some of the most incredible bosses you ever see. That are really weird . I guess the enemies must have been laughing their boobs off , at the robot type thing with huge legs at the end of Ep 3. Never mind the boss to the end of Ep 5 (which looks incredible).
The CG is there because even the X-Box can?t handle the graphics founding in the intro real time. And it?s always been a feature of the series. Just like it?s trademark organic look, water effects, bosses, and music
Every time I play Orta i try to love it more but sometimes it’s impossible.Why?
**a)*The soundtrack.If one small thing was changed - if the soundtrack was anything like the ones in previous games this game would be TWO times better.This soundtrack is unworthy.It completely destroyed the path constructed by Eins,Zwei and Saga as far as music goes.
I think the main reason is that in Orta musics tend to be less epic.I mean in stages like Episode 2,3,5(altho in this one it was fitting),6 and 8 the music is just ambient.It doesn’t excite the player.Nor does it create a “mystic” atmosphere.*
*I mean “The Blue Ruins Theme” in Saga wasn’t exactly action-packed but it transmitted some feeling to us.Orta’s themes are simply emotionless.
Except maybe the Final Boos theme,City in the Storm and Ancient Weapon 2.The only thing that would REALLY matter to me in order to appreciate Orta a little more was too see some epic Panzerish music in it.*
**b)**Sure now we ain’t got no Heresy program but Lagi’s dragon designs suck!They lok like plants or something.It completely goes agehnst all we ever saw in a PD game.
**c)**Imperial Statue’s design.Dragonmares head design,Ep.2’s boss design,the need to use Violet througout the game!The other 3 Panzer games were BROWN games.The PD color is BROWN!
Those are the 3 reasons why I don’t even have the guts to call it my favourite XBox game
And it pains me!!!
[quote=“GehnTheBerserker”]Every time I play Orta i try to love it more but sometimes it’s impossible.Why?
**a)*The soundtrack.If one small thing was changed - if the soundtrack was anything like the ones in previous games this game would be TWO times better.This soundtrack is unworthy.It completely destroyed the path constructed by Eins,Zwei and Saga as far as music goes.
I think the main reason is that in Orta musics tend to be less epic.I mean in stages like Episode 2,3,5(altho in this one it was fitting),6 and 8 the music is just ambient.It doesn’t excite the player.Nor does it create a “mystic” atmosphere.*
*I mean “The Blue Ruins Theme” in Saga wasn’t exactly action-packed but it transmitted some feeling to us.Orta’s themes are simply emotionless.
Except maybe the Final Boos theme,City in the Storm and Ancient Weapon 2.The only thing that would REALLY matter to me in order to appreciate Orta a little more was too see some epic Panzerish music in it.*
[/quote]
I think as a whole the music is better than Zwei (love Ep 5.1 though). I can’t get the Ancient Weapon (Ep 2 boss music) out of my head.
And Imperial City (Ep 8) is 1 of the best bits of music scores ever imo
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]Have you played the 1st two Panzer games??.
Please stop comparing ORTA to the likes of SAGA. Orta as more of a story than the 1st two games put together.[/quote]
I played both. And I don’t like the logic - the flaws of games of the past making Ortas story better. Compare it to Ikaruga and Rez - and it wins. But we are just used to more story know. I also don’t like the lack of story in the “Baldurs Gate” games on the PS2 compared to the PC games. They share the same name so I just expect a certain level of content.
That is exactly what I meant when I said “There were some of those in the other shooters, too”.
How many of those scenes are there? Three?
Yes, they look great - but at the same time they introduce some continuity errors, and you can do the same amount of camerawork in a realtime cutscene - with less polygons and simpler lighting.
But have a look at the realtime cutscenes of Orta, or the realtime cutscenes of games like Shenmue (on DC), Silent Hill 3 (on PS2), or Final Fantasy XII (also the less powerful PS2) and you see what is possible with a little love and a good director.
Let’s say with this part of the budget you could have three prerendered scenes on the one hand and on the other hand a Wormrider village where you could walk around and talk to people… what would you choose?
You my friend, are crazy!!
Better than Zwei??Just listen to the Expected Enemy (Final Boss), or Giant Creature (Ep3 Boss), or Ep2’s boss music or Ep4’s music.
You my friend, ar eoutta of your little mind!!
The main problem I have with PD Orta are some of the characters. While Abadd and Evren were great characters, Orta and Mobo lacked personality in my opinion. The encounter with Mobo towards the end of episode 2 and later the beginning in episode 3 was a bit ridiculous. Orta herself was an interesting character, but only the episode 5 intro and the episode 6 FMV gave us a closer look at her personality.
Also, the story was too just mysterious to be understandable by newcomers to the series. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I read some of the theories of people that had previously never heard of Panzer Dragoon. The in-game animation of the Dragonmares (especially their wings) was far from what we’ve seen in the FMV’s. And the dragon design of the Heavy Wing wasn’t that great, especially not the level 5 form.
Nevertheless, a lot of good can be said about PD Orta too. It’s still one of my favorite XBox games.
[quote=“SenorKaffee”]
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]Have you played the 1st two Panzer games??.
Please stop comparing ORTA to the likes of SAGA. Orta as more of a story than the 1st two games put together.[/quote]
I played both. And I don’t like the logic - the flaws of games of the past making Ortas story better. Compare it to Ikaruga and Rez - and it wins. But we are just used to more story know. I also don’t like the lack of story in the “Baldurs Gate” games on the PS2 compared to the PC games. They share the same name so I just expect a certain level of content.
That is exactly what I meant when I said “There were some of those in the other shooters, too”.
How many of those scenes are there? Three?
Yes, they look great - but at the same time they introduce some continuity errors, and you can do the same amount of camerawork in a realtime cutscene - with less polygons and simpler lighting.
But have a look at the realtime cutscenes of Orta, or the realtime cutscenes of games like Shenmue (on DC), Silent Hill 3 (on PS2), or Final Fantasy XII (also the less powerful PS2) and you see what is possible with a little love and a good director.
Let’s say with this part of the budget you could have three prerendered scenes on the one hand and on the other hand a Wormrider village where you could walk around and talk to people… what would you choose?[/quote]
Where to start.
1st thing mate is Panzer Orta is a shooter (people seem to forget this) It isn’t SAGA II. So if you’re expecting a epic storyline look else where.
If it were a SAGA II then it would be a diff story.
Also there’s no way you could get the Facial Emotion expressions that ORTA does in the intro (whe she 1st meets the Dragonmares), in game (real time) . Maybe on x-Box III but not just yet
Have a look at the beauty that is her hair in the CG and compare that to the admittedly fantasic real time cut-scenes. And it?s no comparisons.
And that CG must have cost a bomb to make. It?s some of the best CG I have ever seen. And that doesn?t come cheap.
[quote=“GehnTheBerserker”]You my friend, are crazy!!
Better than Zwei??Just listen to the Expected Enemy (Final Boss), or Giant Creature (Ep3 Boss), or Ep2’s boss music or Ep4’s music.
You my friend, ar eoutta of your little mind!! :P[/quote]
Nah as good as Zwei music is, I think it’s the weakest in the series (that not to say it’s bad).
I love the final boss music (who doesn’t), and Ep 5/1 is 1 of the best tunes ever made .Plus I also love the end credits music score too.
- SAGA (best music core ever)
- Panzer Dragoon
- Orta
- Zwei
That the way I rate the music found in the series.
That. . . .stupid. . . .STUPID STATUE! It’s utterly laughable! It’s not menacing at all! If they wanted a huge “take it out piece by piece” type of warship, they should’ve modelled it after Mel Kava, but for the Empire. Maybe a big gun emplacement instead of a statue. In fact. ALL the airships in that big armada battle reminded me of games like Silpheed. It. . .just. . .wasn’t. . .Panzer-esque.
And you’re right about the music. O_O I don’t remember a single sequence.
I kinda miss seeing Baldor as a set of simplified polygons, but I guess the bulgy, realistic look makes it seem more like a real creature. That monster with the flower on its back sure was convincing enough. But it means that the designers couldn’t make the dragon morph in real time like in Panzer Dragoon Saga. The dragon designs were okay. At least they had functionality. The base wing looks kinda too much like a gargoyle, though, and the heavy wing is the stuff of nightmares. But I guess that’s the point.
Other than that, I adore Panzer Dragoon Orta.
Just look at Hevay Wing’s 5th form!!A dragon with holes in it’s wings isn’t suposed to fly damnit!