Whether it’s stand alone or not. Separate from the original or not. Someone else, is taking the original work and covering it up with a new engine, completely erasing all of the handmade, painstaking, detail Ueda’s original team put into this world.
New game: "Oh lets plop some grass here, use some pre-generated rock textures here, take out the fog they had here…
I really don’t care if people say just view it as a separate game entirely apart from the original. The game is still being tampered with against Fumito Ueda’s wishes and without any kind of input or direction from him, or his team. And without any new content there is not a good enough reason to spend $60 dollars again. I can admire the original graphics more than this game, because that is the original vision not a re-skin of Unreal Engine, someone is making for a fast cash-in opportunity.
If they had a few old Team Ico members helping out or handling certain aspects of the remake, I would be completely fine with it and excited! But, anyone else touching Team Ico’s work feels taboo to me. It’s like you admire the full trilogy of Team Ico’s work and then some guy takes one of the games and makes it according to his own vision.
I guess the only up side or purpose is to maybe expose more people to the game who haven’t played it or heard of it…But people had 2 chances to play it across two console generations!..And it’s not like the game didn’t sell well or wasn’t positively accepted, hence the reason for this quick and easy cash-in!
My advice… don’t spend $60 again. I’m probably not going to. We can appreciate the merits (or lack of them) of this remake without the intention to play it.
To answer @Draikin’s question: does it need to be remade? The differences between this remake and the original aren’t going to be as noticeable as, say, the Final Fantasy VII remake. As mentioned earlier, many gamers found Team Ico’s games to be inaccessible for one reason or another. That shows that there’s a sizeable number of gamers who probably missed out on the original experience and might give this remake a try (which they wouldn’t if the PS3 remaster was simply ported to PS4). A question to ask is whether Shadow of the Colossus should be remade for this reason.
Someone also made a side-by-side video comparing the new footage to the PS3 version:
The main thing that bothers me about this new version is the lack of fog. One of the charms of the original was not knowing what was up ahead and then suddenly seeing a colossus step out the mist. Now you can see what’s ahead for what looks like miles. The colossi look too prominent against the background rather than blending in. They are meant to feel like part of the scenery; there isn’t meant to be a clear distinction between a colossus and the landscape which the fog helped to reinforce in the PS2 and PS3 versions.
If you look at footage of The Last Guardian, fog is still very prominent, even though the game is running on PS4. The main theme of Ico is even called “Castle in the Mist”, showing just how important this is to the series.
I never played the original game but I’m looking forward to get my hands on this “monument”.
God of War 2018 is also on my list as I never played the original games.
This, and another concern: loss of the original design. Some structures and designs have been completely “paved” over with new designs. And you’re right the loss of fog takes away from some of the atmosphere and mystery of the Forbidden Lands. Also now the Colossi stick out like a sore thumb. I think I’ll be sticking to the original!
Fumito Ueda would be a great choice for a collaboration or the lead of a new Panzer Dragoon, don’t you think ?
He seems to have a great taste and elegant artistic direction in his games.
Just me having loud thought
Well, Ueda can be a bit too monochromatic at times. Lots of greys and brown colors… I think there is just a little bit more color in the Panzer Dragoon world to rely on his style. Don’t get me wrong I do love Ueda’s designs though.
Panzer Dragoon Saga is full of all kinds of different environments. From: forests, valleys, waterfalls, ruins, deserts. But these places are highly stylized and have there own vivid, expressive art style. Also, all of the textures were hand made by Team Andromeda!
You probably know his work more than I do but I thought when I saw the games he worked on, that each of his games seems to have a consistent visual identity, not overcrowded. And he seem to have a style that I like. Unlike for instance the FF games, those perfectly looking faces are not really my cup of tea ^^
Now, regarding colors, you may be right. I didn’t think about this aspect. Not sure this is part of what Fumito is and if he will never change on that, but yea my thought cam from a different perspective.
I may sound like a troll, but something still feels off to me… I still think a work of art is being replaced/re-painted by someone else’s interpretation of that work of art.
For instance: the rocks and cliff faces look too shinny, or “artificial”. And now something about the art style looks generic. It feels like the atmosphere of the original game has been compromised.
I guess I could use Star Wars as an analogy. Adding in a new coat of paint here or some shinny new special effects there, really takes something away from the original feeling and atmosphere of the original.
And something looks strange with Wander, I can’t quite put my finger on it…
@legaiaflame
I don’t know if the original creator was involved but there is always this risk, even more when the game has been very successful initially, to disappoint the original fans. The pressure can be high. Biggest example might be FF7 remake.
So I guess you will never satisfy everybody. Same could happen to a Panzer Dragoon Saga remaster or remake.
I would still take something rather than nothing. I mean the original game still exists so people can still play the PS2 version…
I see what you mean here. I think a lot of it has to do with the generational jump. The capabilities and limitations of the PS2 would’ve heavily influenced the stylistic choices the original artists made during development, and some of that special tailoring is lost in the remake.
It seems difficult, if not nigh impossible, to totally preserve art direction from generation to generation. Take Panzer Dragoon Orta, for example - it’s beautiful to look at, but the art direction isn’t nearly as cohesive as it was between the games on the Saturn. This certainly can be attributed to different team members having worked on Orta, but the increased level of detail provided by the Xbox was also of consequence.
Nonetheless, I’m really liking the refinements we’ve seen since the first Shadow of the Colossus remake trailer. Looking forward to seeing the final product next year!
A fair comparison would be to compare the visuals of The Last Guardian - a game from the same generation of hardware as this remake. Does the art style of the remake stay at least as true to the style found in the original Shadow of the Colossus as does The Last Guardian?
Another point: the differences might not matter so much to a new player, or players who haven’t played SOTC in years. It does seem like Bluepoint are trying hard to recapture the vision of the original at least. We may lose some details in the remake, reducing the uniqueness of the game in the process, but gain something else in its stead. I was just playing Sonic Mania today and was reminded how in the original Green Hill Zone you would have to take a run up and then spin to smash through a wall. In subsequent re-releases of Green Hill, spin dash was added, so there was no need to take a run up. Momentum played a less prominent role. This removed a unique gameplay element, but added a useful feature in it’s stead. Do players mind that something was lost? I’m not sure.
I wouldn’t call the Saturn games cohesive if you compare the first game to its sequels. It’s really Zwei and Saga that gave the series the distinct art direction that people remember it for. If I remember correctly, back when they started work on Orta the developers considered a cell-shaded approach. While I didn’t think it would have been the right decision at the time, nowadays I think it could genuinely work. Gravity Rush 2 is a good example of a game that uses cell-shading in a sort of hybrid way that I imagine would work well for Panzer Dragoon.
As for SotC. I actually have the remastered version for PS3 but I never got around to playing it. What I’ve seen from the PS4 version looks faithful to the original. It’s interesting to see Bluepoint Games work on an actual remake rather than a remaster. They’re experts at the latter, and it looks like the game is shaping up great. But the question is if it’s really needed to remake this game, when they could have made the previous remasters retro-compatible for PS4. That’s one area Xbox is doing a lot better, even if it’s not helping them much at the moment.
The art direction is undeniably tightest between Zwei and Saga, likely because of their concurrent development. There’s a marked aesthetic difference between the original and Zwei/Saga, but I still feel the jump to Orta brought the greatest change. The simple textures and flat shading of the Saturn titles contributed to the overall feel of them, which I think would translate well into a modern cell-shaded style should another Panzer Dragoon ever be made.
I think this is the big question with any remaster or remake. Personally, losing some of the original feel of a game is acceptable to me when the value of the improvements exceeds what’s lost. I know this isn’t the case for everyone, though, since what constitutes as an ‘improvement’ is subjective. Interested to revisit this and hear everyone’s thoughts once we’ve played the final product.
I sort of felt the same way when the remakes of Zelda Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask were remade and released on the 3DS. The charm of the simple N64 textures/designs/art was lost and completely steam rolled over. I really loved some of the 2D backgrounds found in Hyrule Castle Market and some of the house interiors.
So, then that is my point. Something will indeed be lost. Whether you can accept that or if it completely turns you away, is up to the player…
Eurogamer has posted an excellent analysis of the tech behind the remake and how it translates to making the game not only look better, but feel like the original too (apparently).
Man, the more I see of the remake the more artificial the new graphics look to me…In the original every artistic asset had a place, a flare for its own artistic design and was cemented as part of the world, organically.
The remake looks too artificially put in place, too generated, and too inorganic, compared to the original. I’ve said if before but the originals assets, and atmosphere have been lost to a “too shinny” new coat of paint that completely floods over the original design…
As said before, I am going to play this classic masterpiece. I couldn’t play it on the PS2 since I had left the console world for more than a decade but I’m going to play this after all I have seen and read.
Just need my PS4 back !
Btw, how long is the game?
