New Sonic game: Sonic Generations

[quote=“Parn”]

Except for the part where the game doesn’t control like the 16-bit games at all, which makes it a complete slap in the face that they released such a half-assed product while preying on overly hopeful Sega fans (again).

Don’t tell me , You Tube told you so …
Yup. That and fan feedback, reviews, and a huge, overwhelming assortment of evidence all over the place.

It’s as obvious as the temperature of a steaming pot of water on the stove. It’s hot, I promise.[/quote]

Lets get one thing straight, people who do not buy the Sonic games, are not fans at all, and if we’re going on reviews… Sonic IV metric score is very high and very respectable, didn’t Youtube tell you that ?

This is my favorite review.

[quote]Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1 is a wolf in sheep?s clothing.

The new downloadable game for Wii, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 (reviewed) seems to make all the changes that Sonic?s fans have been clamoring for: It brings the series back to 2-D. It gets rid of Sonic?s crappy friends and makes the iconic blue critter the only playable character. Cute little birdies even pop out of enemies when they explode, just like in the good old Genesis days.

Sonic 4 nails these superficially nostalgic elements, but crashes and burns when it comes to what?s really important.

That?s unfortunate, because the quality of Sega?s biggest series has declined so much over the past decade that fans like me were pinning their last, best hopes to this game.

Sonic 4?s main problem is the same one that has plagued every game since Sonic & Knuckles 15 years ago: Very little player input is required. The levels are designed in such a way that you can easily get by just holding right on the D-pad and occasionally jumping.

The few spots where careful timing is required are mostly ruined by wonky physics. The most glaring example is that Sonic can stop on a dime ? even in mid-air. So if you jump forward and then let go of the joystick, Sonic will lose all forward momentum and drop straight down like a lump of lead. This, for me, was the cause of more than a few deaths.

For somebody who can put on the brakes with ease, Sonic takes way too long to get moving. Getting a running start feels like walking through mud. This is mostly a big problem in boss battles, where the playing area is small and confined: You don?t have enough room to build up speed, making it much harder to dodge the attacks.

Sonic 4 has also given Sonic the ability to literally walk, not run, up walls at a 90-degree angle.

None of these things are small problems. They all affect the game?s controls, the one thing that can make or break a 2-D platform action game.

The running theme of Sonic 4 seems to be: ?Surprise ? you?re dead!?

There are more ?gotcha!? moments than in the most brutal Japanese ROM hack. I can?t count how many times I found myself running along at a speedy clip, only to fall into a bottomless pit with no prior warning.

The game takes this concept one step further when it introduces a pitch-dark level, forcing Sonic to use a torch that can only illuminate a small circle around him. This meant that I had to slowly inch forward ? in a Sonic game! ? lest I run smack into an invisible foe.

In the rest of the levels, the camera is so close in on Sonic that even when you?re not in an inky cavern, you can only see a few inches ahead of you.

Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1 is more than a below-average platformer. It feels like the last nail in the franchise?s coffin. If this game couldn?t take the series back to its glory days, it doesn?t seem like it?ll ever get there.

WIRED Pretty graphics. Will make you feel 10 years old again for a few minutes.

TIRED Terrible physics. Gameplay on autopilot. Evil traps designed to catch you off-guard.

$15, Sega

Rating: 4/10[/quote]

wired.com/gamelife/2010/10/sonic-4-review/

[quote=“Parn”]This is my favorite review.

[quote]Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1 is a wolf in sheep?s clothing.

The new downloadable game for Wii, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 (reviewed) seems to make all the changes that Sonic?s fans have been clamoring for: It brings the series back to 2-D. It gets rid of Sonic?s crappy friends and makes the iconic blue critter the only playable character. Cute little birdies even pop out of enemies when they explode, just like in the good old Genesis days.

Sonic 4 nails these superficially nostalgic elements, but crashes and burns when it comes to what?s really important.

That?s unfortunate, because the quality of Sega?s biggest series has declined so much over the past decade that fans like me were pinning their last, best hopes to this game.

Sonic 4?s main problem is the same one that has plagued every game since Sonic & Knuckles 15 years ago: Very little player input is required. The levels are designed in such a way that you can easily get by just holding right on the D-pad and occasionally jumping.

The few spots where careful timing is required are mostly ruined by wonky physics. The most glaring example is that Sonic can stop on a dime ? even in mid-air. So if you jump forward and then let go of the joystick, Sonic will lose all forward momentum and drop straight down like a lump of lead. This, for me, was the cause of more than a few deaths.

For somebody who can put on the brakes with ease, Sonic takes way too long to get moving. Getting a running start feels like walking through mud. This is mostly a big problem in boss battles, where the playing area is small and confined: You don?t have enough room to build up speed, making it much harder to dodge the attacks.

Sonic 4 has also given Sonic the ability to literally walk, not run, up walls at a 90-degree angle.

None of these things are small problems. They all affect the game?s controls, the one thing that can make or break a 2-D platform action game.

The running theme of Sonic 4 seems to be: ?Surprise ? you?re dead!?

There are more ?gotcha!? moments than in the most brutal Japanese ROM hack. I can?t count how many times I found myself running along at a speedy clip, only to fall into a bottomless pit with no prior warning.

The game takes this concept one step further when it introduces a pitch-dark level, forcing Sonic to use a torch that can only illuminate a small circle around him. This meant that I had to slowly inch forward ? in a Sonic game! ? lest I run smack into an invisible foe.

In the rest of the levels, the camera is so close in on Sonic that even when you?re not in an inky cavern, you can only see a few inches ahead of you.

Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1 is more than a below-average platformer. It feels like the last nail in the franchise?s coffin. If this game couldn?t take the series back to its glory days, it doesn?t seem like it?ll ever get there.

WIRED[/quote]

Pretty graphics. Will make you feel 10 years old again for a few minutes.

TIRED Terrible physics. Gameplay on autopilot. Evil traps designed to catch you off-guard.

$15, Sega

Rating: 4/10

wired.com/gamelife/2010/10/sonic-4-review/[/quote]

Rolls Eye’s Yes that well respected and widely known review site

And now from Joystiq!

[quote]Sega is giving the people what they want. Sonic’s lips are sewn together tightly, his pals have been laid to rest in a shoebox somewhere in the garden, and the world is nice and two-dimensional again. This is the 16-bit sequel you’ve been craving for sixteen bitter years, one that sidesteps every pitfall introduced in Sonic’s 3D outings. Finally, the cycle is over!

But there’s a problem. If you’ve been on the verge of starvation for 16 years, you might be a tad too eager to swallow any crumb that’s flicked your way. And if there’s one thing that Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is, it’s crummy.

In an attempt to remix nostalgia and tick every box on what the survey said the fans would like, Sonic 4 never feels like a distinct game in the series, let alone a long-awaited sequel to the Genesis classics. It’s not as good as any of them, and the plunder-and-update mentality leads to a game that feels more insubstantial than evocative.

The utterly repulsive graphics are a good indicator of what can go wrong with this kind of project. The pre-rendered backgrounds are pristine and of the highest resolution, but so static and devoid of artistry that they resemble the generic backgrounds of a casual puzzle game. I think I saw most of Sonic’s “Lost Labyrinth Zone” behind the marbles in Zuma. They’ve stuck new, polygonal Sonic on top of all this – new, polygonal Sonic who doesn’t have a shred of personality, who robotically saunters into a run, and who glides across the stage on a bar of soap wrapped in a banana peel.

Sonic’s momentum feels completely wrong too, as he can now simply walk up hills and even into his iconic, checkerboard loops with little resistance. It’s almost as baffling as the inclusion of his mid-air homing attack, which is activated by pressing the jump button a second time. This was introduced in Sonic Adventure and aided movement in a three-dimensional space – here, in 2D land, it only removes the need for precision when jumping on enemies. The game’s already too easy and too eager to succumb to auto-pilot progression.

Of course, it’s also about running, and Sonic Team is still obsessed with having Sonic ricochet through a controlled sequence of boosts and springs, rather than letting him run through multi-tiered levels. Sonic 4 attempts to find a better balance, often fluctuating between the extremes of tying you up too tightly, or leaving you uncertain as to which way you should go. Some stages do a poor job of flagging bottomless pits, while others instill you with enough confidence to fall off one path, knowing that another will catch you below. Either way, there’s too much repetitive, on-rails bouncing, and the most ambitious levels in Sonic 4 never approach the intricacy of stages like Oil Ocean Zone, or the upside-down cleverness of Death Egg Zone in Sonic & Knuckles.

There is something nice to be said about the level select screen, at least. Allowing you to jump between zones right from the start is a great idea and invites a change of scenery whenever you complete an act. It’s a simple modification that sits well with the old Sonic structure. The new special stages – the tilting, kaleidoscopic mazes from Sonic 1 – benefit from another sensible change. Now, you spin the level around as Sonic tumbles through it.

I also like a couple of unique gimmicks throughout Sonic 4 which are, like the best platforming gimmicks, decipherable within seconds. (Sometime it’s nice to play a game that doesn’t beat you over the head with a tutorial!) One interesting level has you exploring the dark by torchlight, igniting fuses on explosives to clear the way. Another has Sonic running atop a giant gear which takes him past exploding stars and preying mantis robots. Wait, no … that’s pretty much just Metropolis Zone from Sonic 2, isn’t it?

Every single boss in Sonic 4 is lifted from an earlier game and given a twist. What this usually means is that you’ll defeat the first phase simply through recognition and recollection alone, and then have to avoid a cheap addition to Eggman’s arsenal. The worst offender is the protracted final boss, which recycles and then ruins a classic battle from Sonic 2, just before killing you unexpectedly in its death throes. If you’re trying to convince me that you can still make good, new Sonic games, this is a lousy strategy.

That strategy is almost as weak as making Sonic 4: Episode 1 an unsatisfying mishmash of remake and homage. It’s a brief, underwhelming and unchallenging experience that never really gets up to speed as a sequel – never mind a particularly good platformer. Perhaps Sonic fans should just celebrate the small victory that is an above-average Sonic outing, hoping nobody sees us licking our plates.[/quote]

joystiq.com/2010/10/13/sonic … -1-review/

Or perhaps you’d like me to post Edge Magazine’s 6 out of 10 review next?

BTW, don’t think I didn’t notice how you completely dodged the bit about how the game does not control anything like the original three Sonic games from a few posts ago. Because it doesn’t. Go ahead, tell me that Sonic 4 controls like the original Genesis titles.

LOL. Don’t get me stated on EDGE. I could post a whole list of SEGA games that never got the credit they deserved in EDGE, Virtual Evo IV being just one them, and as for joystiq… is the same joystiq that gave GT 5 a High mark and hardly moaned about the game iffy physics, laughable AI ECT ?

Mind you they loved Sonic Colors didn’t they ?

Still waiting. Does Sonic 4 control like the original Genesis titles? Yes or no.

Yes left or right on the D-Pad one Button to do all the moves and the lefts scroll from right to left How much more Sonic do you want it ?

If want to be so clever no Sonic made since the original classic title controls like the classic Sonic : Sonic II Spin Dash move wasn’t in Sonic, Sonic CD Start dash wasn’t in Sonic, and the power ups and new moves found in Sonic III and S&K weren’t in the Sonic.

If fact you must hate Sonic III where it became more and more like a Mario game

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]

Yes left or right on the D-Pad one Button to do all the moves and the lefts scroll from right to left How much more Sonic do you want it ? [/quote]

Oh I dunno, maybe the same physics of the classic games? Pressing left and right on a D-pad moves your character left and right on any classic platformer. What separates the good platformers from the bad is how your characters move. In the case of Sonic 4, Sonic does not move like he does in Sonic 1, 2, or 3. Try to tell me otherwise.

[quote]If want to be so clever no Sonic made since the original classic title controls like the classic Sonic : Sonic II Spin Dash move wasn’t in Sonic, Sonic CD Start dash wasn’t in Sonic, and the power ups and new moves found in Sonic III and S&K weren’t in the Sonic.

If fact you must hate Sonic III where it became more and more like a Mario game[/quote]

I’m not talking about the addition of new moves you fucking moron.

Even if the 3D sections in Sonic Generations aren’t that great, it might be worth it for the 2D gameplay. Time will tell.

?

You name me one game that has the exact same physics as seen in their very 1st 16 bit outing , Not even Mario does that . What next hating Virtual Fighter 4, 5 because the jump physics were changed to that 1st seen in VF and how dare SEGA improved the speed response of the game and double the frame rate , maybe SEGA should haven’t textured mapped the game either

He does,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrkeyrU3wSw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m-P8lsr52U

Guess you must hate those Bubble physics er ? and homing attacks in Sonic III .

Insults ? Did you learn that on YouTube ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex-TeSxHHLk[/list]

Thanks for confirming that you are basically crazy. Sonic 4 controls like the previous Sonic games? Ahaha. You have to literally be mental to believe that.

OK, I’m done.

Yes, Hold left to move left, Hold right to move right 1 main button to do all the action, push up- look up, push down look down , and if one played Sonic III one will soon get the extra abilities.

*awaits the childish insults *

There’s of course more to it than that. When it comes to the level design and gameplay, Sonic 4 is a far less polished game than its 2D predecessors. A key element in the classic 2D Sonic gameplay was the way the engine handled momentum. A simple example is that in Sonic 4 Sonic loses all horizontal momentum when jumping if you don’t hold down the D-pad, which really doesn’t make any sense. Sonic also manages to slow down and stop completely when spinning downhill. That’s not counting the bugs with looping and Sonic’s newfound ability to stand still on a vertical wall.

Further taking away from the old gameplay are the homing attack and air dash, which pretty much removes the effort that it used to take to build up and maintain Sonic’s speed. And if that doesn’t do the trick, there’s plenty of speed bumps available as well. These gameplay elements were brought over from Sonic’s recent “3D” games but they end up ruining the old gameplay. Again worthy of note is that in the video for the Sonic generations (classic), the person showing the demo specifically mentioned that they’re bringing back the “momentum based gameplay” where “speed is a reward”. Also note the absence of all the new mechanics I described above. Not saying that they’ll get it right this time, but they seem to understand why Sonic 4 failed to bring back the old gameplay.

http://forums.thewilloftheancients.com/images/avatars/390529222487efab695ce0.jpghttp://forums.thewilloftheancients.com/images/avatars/390529222487efab695ce0.jpghttp://forums.thewilloftheancients.com/images/avatars/390529222487efab695ce0.jpghttp://forums.thewilloftheancients.com/images/avatars/390529222487efab695ce0.jpghttp://forums.thewilloftheancients.com/images/avatars/390529222487efab695ce0.jpghttp://forums.thewilloftheancients.com/images/avatars/390529222487efab695ce0.jpg

herp derp name me one game that is exactly the same as its predeecessor???//?

http://forums.thewilloftheancients.com/images/avatars/390529222487efab695ce0.jpghttp://forums.thewilloftheancients.com/images/avatars/390529222487efab695ce0.jpghttp://forums.thewilloftheancients.com/images/avatars/390529222487efab695ce0.jpghttp://forums.thewilloftheancients.com/images/avatars/390529222487efab695ce0.jpghttp://forums.thewilloftheancients.com/images/avatars/390529222487efab695ce0.jpghttp://forums.thewilloftheancients.com/images/avatars/390529222487efab695ce0.jpg

I?ll refrain from stepping too far into the ring beyond saying that one obviously doesn?t have to have played a game to judge its merits or the lack thereof if these are evident in video footage and the combined opinion of many players, and that it can?t be denied that Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I has some severely botched physics. (Not that I?m a major partisan of the Sonic series, being limited mainly to the classic trilogy and having realised that even those don?t have much to them beyond nostalgia and some good music?)

Also:

Where? I assume you?re conflating this 3D-era move with the augmented jump attacks conferred by the three elemental shields.

Where? I assume you?re conflating this 3D-era move with the augmented jump attacks conferred by the three elemental shields.

Yep and there’s plenty of iffy moments and Physics in some of the best rated games . Play Fable II and III to find that out

True up until Sonic III and that’s when the series started to play more and more like a Mario game, especially Sonic and knuckles and where the so called momentum base gameplay ended

And there’s plenty of iffy moments and dodgy physics in Sonic CD , but that’s hailed as a classic

For me Sonic Adv is the best Sonic game ever made and the game that really captured what a Sonic game should be all about .

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]

Where? I assume you?re conflating this 3D-era move with the augmented jump attacks conferred by the three elemental shields.Yep and there’s plenty of iffy moments and Physics in some of the best rated games . Play Fable II and III to find that out [/quote]

Conflating ~= mistakenly equating. In other words, none of the original trilogy possessed a homing attack.

And would you care to enlighten us as to what those games have to do with the topic at hand?

[quote]

True up until Sonic III and that’s when the series started to play more and more like a Mario game, especially Sonic and knuckles and where the so called momentum base gameplay ended[/quote]

What? Implying Sonic & Knuckles was anything beyond an expansion pack for and therefore was at all different from Sonic the Hedgehog 3 besides a few minor adjustments that were not related to physics. The differences in level design between the two games are not so significant as to reflect a fundamental change in gameplay; and I could do little to compare any of the original trilogy to my (admittedly limited) experience of Mario games, which seem to put considerably more emphasis on platforming actually requiring more than a token amount of thought, enemies actually posing a danger, etc.

Sonic standing still on a vertical wall? Moonwalking on the roof? Losing all momentum as soon as the player releases the direction? [citation needed]

And a number of people rate Sonic Advance (the first one) as the spiritual successor to the original trilogy, what with its fairly faithful reimplementation of their gameplay and physics, so you may be somewhat undermining your own point here.

That games ship with iffy moments and Bugs and people can make a massive list of them (I tink Fable has 2000 plus) and many You Tube video’s about them too. But in most cases people will overlook the bugs and enjoy the game.

Sonic and Knuckles was a complete game in it’s self and in Sonic and Knucles and Sonic III, the classic simple momentum based gameplay was changed to a More Mario like gameplay experiences and depth

How about Sonic floating in mid air, which can happen in Sonic CD . How about being able to stand in mid air before the vertical ledge climbs in Palmtree Panic

I’m on about Sonic Adventure onthe DC, not the GBA series. Like I’ve said I found the 16 bit games to be vastly overrated and totally outclassed by Revenge of Shinobi. Quckshot and Mickey Mouse onthe MD

Some footage of Chemical Plant and Sky Sanctuary:
kotaku.com/5840708/how-three-gen … enerations

Looks stunning I just can’t wait