Japan's hopefully not so "great fall"

[Team_Andromeda]

Smoking does cause cancer.

I’m not being picky as so much pointing out that if was the case that if smoking causes cancer, then everyone who smokes would have cancer , only that isn’t the case . I’ve countless interviews with the SEGA staff smoking away with the best of them, Japan like much of Asia smokes quite heavily , yet they have noting like the Cancer rates of this country .

And btw , I don’t smoke never liked the habit and nor do I work for the Industry . So don’t tar (no pun intended) with that Brush thanks

It’s both. Food can have both advantages and disadvantages. Sugar gives you energy, but eating a lot of it rots your teeth

Well yes if one drinks too much water you can die. But it’s seems we being told something different all the time, now Mobiles are again linked with Brain cancer

We should put aside personal feelings and look at the consequences. It’s not a black and white issue

Well I accept that , I see it ever day in work . But I do have deep worries on stuff like cloning and messing around with DNA - That is too much playing GOD.

That’s quite different from scientific consensus

The UK UK Chief veterinary/Health officer will only go and act on what the UK leading scientists tell them, it’s one of the reasons the UK spent billions on tamiflu -Only for to be a complete waste of money and the experts proved very much wrong

But you’ve got to be realistic about the reality of the economic situation too.

Compared to the end of the word . Money shouldn’t be an issue at all .

I think overall things are a bit better here still.

No doubt they are, but if were to have tight Reg of the Banks like in Spain , Our Banks wouldn’t have been in such a mess .

Great, let’s compete to stay ahead then without keeping other countries down

We’ll invent and the east will copy the idea’s and mass produce them more cheaply and effectively; And not many do it better than the Japanese.

But you don’t seem to think that other countries are being kept down by outside hunger for money.

The you don’t know me, I hate the CAP and see it as nothing more than Europe keeping Africa farmers for being able to sell their Goods in he EU. It’s why I believe governments give so much AID to Africa, it’s cheaper and easier that opening our Markets to Africa (which is the real way to grow their economy)

If you can prove that the government knew it was going to happen but did nothing

John Redwood and lots of other all predicted the market would crash and that Government borrowing and House Market was going to burst . We learnt nothing from the Japan Banking crisis or The Finnish Banking Crisis

It’s nothing new at all.

Then you are letting the country need them when we don’t need them at all.

Answer me this Duke If you were American why else would you come to the UK. The USA had Snow, Sun, the best theme parks , is far cheaper and the nicest people all in one country .

What do we have?, Shit weather , rip off prices, shit transport, and nothing like as good Theme parks , we do have a bit of History, Culture and the Royals and that seems to be good enough for the Americans

Same difference

What a life we no friends no true love . There’s quite a few rich people that die alone

Would you rather be homeless or living in a warm safe home

Given our Benefit system , people really shouldn’t be homeless in the 1st place

That’s not what I said.

You said

Yeah they reap what they sew.

Now not everyone that is rich is evil , and quite a lot worked dam hard to get where they do and imo deserver all the riches they do (not all but a lot) . I’ve no problems with Jackie Chan, Yu Suzuki, Sepultura, Doctors or Consultants , Bill Gates being millionaires at all

They’ve worked hard to get where they got and use their talents to help the world (in their own ways )

[Geoffrey]

The Japanese have better diets than we do imo. That is linked to cancer prevention like I said. People are starting to wake up more to that now (better late than never, right? Lol).

…but if were to have tight Reg of the Banks like in Spain , Our Banks wouldn’t have been in such a mess .

They needed to fail on their own. The government never forced them into it.

The money making machine will do what it has to do to remain competitive because it’s built on growth (that doesn’t mean I agree with it having no ethics). Only failure will stop it. Something that actually works will be reborn from those ashes. Government intervention has to be done carefully because if the free market knows it won’t be punished for mistakes, it won’t strive to better itself as much.

The point still stands: did the government force the free market (which was the actual source of all the money) into crashing the economy? You should place blame where it belongs.

We’ll invent and the east will copy the idea’s and mass produce them more cheaply and effectively; And not many do it better than the Japanese.

Good. Then someone will always try to stay ahead.

The you don’t know me, I hate the CAP and see it as nothing more than Europe keeping Africa farmers for being able to sell their Goods in he EU. It’s why I believe governments give so much AID to Africa, it’s cheaper and easier that opening our Markets to Africa (which is the real way to grow their economy)

Then we agree again. Aid is misused imo.

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]John Redwood and lots of other all predicted the market would crash and that Government borrowing and House Market was going to burst . We learnt nothing from the Japan Banking crisis or The Finnish Banking Crisis

It’s nothing new at all.[/quote]

The free market was still the source of the problem. That was the source of the fictional money.

Why do you want to hold the government to blame so much?

One day there will be a crash, and there will be no one to bail anyone out. It’s really inevitable for the current system unless you really want to be dependent on a central authority that lacks the competition of the free market.

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]Answer me this Duke If you were American why else would you come to the UK. The USA had Snow, Sun, the best theme parks , is far cheaper and the nicest people all in one country .

What do we have?, Shit weather , rip off prices, shit transport, and nothing like as good Theme parks , we do have a bit of History, Culture and the Royals and that seems to be good enough for the Americans[/quote]

I would stay in America. England’s biggest redeeming quality is that the people are quite liberal compared to other places. But you know, becoming a shadow of our former selves is a choice.

What a life we no friends no true love . There’s quite a few rich people that die alone

You can be both independent and happy.

Given our Benefit system , people really shouldn’t be homeless in the 1st place

You’d think so.

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]Now not everyone that is rich is evil , and quite a lot worked dam hard to get where they do and imo deserver all the riches they do (not all but a lot) . I’ve no problems with Jackie Chan, Yu Suzuki, Sepultura, Doctors or Consultants , Bill Gates being millionaires at all

They’ve worked hard to get where they got and use their talents to help the world (in their own ways ) [/quote]

The more social mobility, the better. It benefits everyone.

[Ancient_Weapon]

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]

Smoking does cause cancer.

I’m not being picky as so much pointing out that if was the case that if smoking causes cancer, then everyone who smokes would have cancer , only that isn’t the case . I’ve countless interviews with the SEGA staff smoking away with the best of them, Japan like much of Asia smokes quite heavily , yet they have noting like the Cancer rates of this country .

And btw , I don’t smoke never liked the habit and nor do I work for the Industry . So don’t tar (no pun intended) with that Brush thanks[/quote]

It looks as though you completely overlooked my previous post. Handy hints: ?carcinogenic potentialities?, ?we have consensus on that?, etc.

[Solo_Wing]

Well yes if one drinks too much water you can die. But it’s seems we being told something different all the time, now Mobiles are again linked with Brain cancer

I haven’t been following the mobile/cancer issue too closely, but we should be sceptical of any media reports without reviewing all the evidence. This article, for example, states that the radiation from cell phones is a possible cause of cancer. Reviewing the article, it appears this is less certain than the evidence for smoking leading to cancer, for example. There is more evidence for the latter. On all these issues, there is a continuum of evidence, it’s never black and white. The same applies to remaining with the status quo, e.g. cancer being linked to red meat. Progressing forward, or staying with the status quo can be dangerous in both cases. The more evidence we have, the more of an informed decision we can make. It’s all within the domain of science to provide the best evidence possible.

This is quite different from being told different things all the time (e.g. being told falsehoods). It’s more a matter of new light be shone on a subject that we didn’t have before.

Well I accept that , I see it ever day in work . But I do have deep worries on stuff like cloning and messing around with DNA - That is too much playing GOD.

You missed out the first sentence of my paragraph in the quoted text. I said “We already started “playing God” went we developed modern medicine and were able to live past our natural lifespan of 30 or so.”

The UK UK Chief veterinary/Health officer will only go and act on what the UK leading scientists tell them, it’s one of the reasons the UK spent billions on tamiflu -Only for to be a complete waste of money and the experts proved very much wrong

I’m going to need more to go on. Links to information about what was actually said, etc. It’s too easy to misinterpret what was said via second hand information.

Compared to the end of the word . Money shouldn’t be an issue at all .

Again, you deliberately left off the important part of my comment! Straight afterwards I said: “Money can’t be pulled out of thin air. It has to come from somewhere, such as a tax.” Discussing this is waste of time if you’re not even going to make an effort to represent my position correctly!

[Team_Andromeda]

The Japanese have better diets than we do imo. That is linked to cancer prevention like I said

I know and that’s the point . If smoking does cause cancer then everyone who smokes should have it, no matter what they eat.

Maybe we should carry a warming if you want to smoke eat lots of fresh food and sea food ?

I haven’t been following the mobile/cancer issue too closely, but we should be sceptical of any media reports without reviewing all the evidence

Why’s that, becasue we all love our Mobiles ?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/health-news/2011/06/01/mobile-phones-linked-to-cancer-in-world-health-organisation-report-86908-23171427/

We already started “playing God” went we developed modern medicine and were able to live past our natural lifespan of 30 or so

I don’t see us using Plants as playing GOD. Now cloning people is playing GOD and imo asking for trouble .

Links to information about what was actually said, etc

It’s from the 80’s so they’ll be not much on the Interweb

Money can’t be pulled out of thin air. It has to come from somewhere, such as a tax

It can you know, you just print more , which I gather we inthe UK and USA have done the past year , but that was put to saving the banks and Economy rather than the Planet.

The point still stands: did the government force the free marke

Duke you do know what a structural deficit is I hope ?

Good. Then someone will always try to stay ahead

Why I would put to you that’s the reason why R&D is not out sourced

Then we agree again. Aid is misused imo

Yep spot on .

Why do you want to hold the government to blame so much

Because they borrowed with the best of them and never put any money away in Reserve .

I would stay in America

me too , but the USA doesn’t have the history compared to of us and that helps to bring the American over

You can be both independent and happ

And some can be poor and happy . In the end I’l rather have mates and a Soul mate anyday of the week

The more social mobility, the better. It benefits everyon

It does, which is why I have no trouble with people who get rich and worked hard to get there, even the likes of Simon Cowell. My only trouble is the rich seem be able to get away with stuff that the common person wouldn’t be that with taking drugs, drink driving and stuff like that .

I really hate that side of things

[Geoffrey]

We can’t let ourselves need the Royals.

Duke you do know what a structural deficit is I hope ?

Yes I do. Sadly.

Why I would put to you that’s the reason why R&D is not out sourced

Yes it is and it is still wrong, but it is what it is: being competitive. That can be a very healthy thing under the right circumstances.

Because they borrowed with the best of them and never put any money away in Reserve.

They were doing only what was logical at the time in keeping up with the demands of growth.

It boils down to a simple question: who was creating the wealth? Business or the government? You already know what the answer is.

And some can be poor and happy.

I’m not saying that can’t be true, but when it’s a matter of survival people will side with money still. Better to help everyone find ways to earn it.

It does…

Indeed. So let’s create more social mobility instead of benefiting from less.

[Solo_Wing]

Why’s that, becasue we all love our Mobiles ?

I’m not sure that I see your point with relevance to the topic. Liking mobiles has nothing to do with whether it’s true that they cause cancer or not. I already addressed the point about degrees of certainty in the last post, so I won’t repeat myself here.

I don’t see us using Plants as playing GOD. Now cloning people is playing GOD and imo asking for trouble .

Those are two polar extremes of the spectrum. But what about all the intermediate cases of advancing medical science that goes against what is natural? Antibiotics, organ transplants, etc. If we were really set on not tampering with the natural scheme of things, we’d let those people die instead. Not exactly desirable. I don’t think we can make blanket statements about playing God, when there is a continuum of interference with natural systems. If you’re against in vitro meat, cloning organs, GM food, etc, you really need to say why these things could be bad in terms of consequences to human and animal well being.

It’s from the 80’s so they’ll be not much on the Interweb

I guess we’ll have to leave that issue alone then.

It can you know, you just print more , which I gather we inthe UK and USA have done the past year , but that was put to saving the banks and Economy rather than the Planet.

The banks were bailed out using tax payer money, as far as i’m aware. Although money can “grow” via inflation, it’s not simply a matter of saying “hey, I need a billion dollars now, let’s go and print off some new money.”

[Team_Andromeda]

Those are two polar extremes of the spectrum

There are and I think there comes a time where we need to draw a line and cloning or Gene selection are such area’s imo (not saying it’s right btw)

I’m not sure that I see your point with relevance to the topic.

It’s simple most will ignore that warning because they can’t live with out their Mobiles, we have one report about the MMR jab and there’s a completely different outcome with mum and dads going wild, but no issues with giving their kids mobile (even though the Skull is not fully developed )

People can be very selective in what reports they go on

The banks were bailed out using tax payer money

No just Tax payers money , but massive amounts of borrowing . Now which is more important the Banks or the World ? It is a simple question
Governments have billions in Gold reserves, I put to you, you’ll never see that spent on making the world cut it’s love affair with Oil .

Yes I do. Sadly

Well then you should know that it was a problem built up over time, and not a flash in the pan.

Yes it is and it is still wrong,

WHY ? even Japan does this too

They were doing only what was logical at the time in keeping up with the demands of growth.

Common logic says you cut taxes and spending at times of growth , not the other away around .

So let’s create more social mobility

It’s a bit of pie in the SKY stuff mate . It’s always better who you know, rather than what you know and that happens in the Factory with friends getting Jobs for their mates .

What I would like to see is Markets open to all and everyone in the world having a Open and free election . Very basic rights that everyone in the world should have

[Geoffrey]

Well then you should know that it was a problem built up over time, and not a flash in the pan.

That’s a separate issue. A system operating on perpetual debt will always crash because it really needs to stay in line with constant huge growth. There are other issues with it (it’s really a stealth “graduated income tax”) but let’s not go there.

WHY ? even Japan does this too

You need to separate being competitive from doing it without concern for others.

Common logic says you cut taxes and spending at times of growth , not the other away around .

That’s all relative. You cut taxes to encourage growth if growth is even possible sure, but with regards to spending there are other factors to consider when the growth is cyclical more than outwards (like an aging population). But the point is they were keeping up with the free market’s momentum with public sector expansion being one of the side effects.

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]It’s a bit of pie in the SKY stuff mate . It’s always better who you know, rather than what you know and that happens in the Factory with friends getting Jobs for their mates .

What I would like to see is Markets open to all and everyone in the world having a Open and free election . Very basic rights that everyone in the world should have[/quote]

We’re not still living in the Stone Age for a reason, and a better world can be created instead of us being forced to always adapt to someone else’s hell.

[Ancient_Weapon]

There are and I think there comes a time where we need to draw a line and cloning or Gene selection are such area’s imo (not saying it’s right btw)

Cloning of what? Medical cloning of tissues/organs could provide much-needed solutions to many huge health problems. And what do you mean by ?Gene selection?? Does that seemingly unnecessary capital letter connote some idiosyncratic definition I?m unaware of, perhaps the use of recombination to produce medications such as insulin? That seems like a fairly legitimate usage of biotechnology to me.

In any field of biological engineering, a line does need to be drawn (many lines, actually, to ward off dangers from various spheres: ethical, safety, evil geniuses concocting lethal flatulence, conceited parents wanting ?designer babies? [let?s just [i]all stop having babies, can we?], etc.)?but, as Solo said (and as should be obvious for any human issue), one cannot view this in black and white. Writing off the entire issue entails ignoring the positive outcomes it has had; perhaps more numerous are those it could have, much like all of humanity?s endeavours (such a shame to see how those usually turn out instead, eh?)

[Solo_Wing]

Here’s a link to a video of the talk I went to see with Dr James Hanson. Well worth a watch, if you can grab a spare hour and a half.

otago.ac.nz/news/itunesu/pod … 018640.mp4 (251.5 MB)
He comes on at 5 minutes, 14 seconds into the video.

I’ll address the other points in this thread later.

[Team_Andromeda]

Cloning of what? Medical cloning of tissues/organs could provide much-needed solutions to many huge health problems.

Cloning the Top breed of animals for the Food chain mainly, This issue about Organs could be eased in a BIG way overnight : As so as you die your Organs become the property of the NHS/Government instead of being food for the dire or the worms , its can be as simple as that

And what do you mean by ?Gene selection?

Creating the perfect baby where you can chose the sex of the baby even down to the colours of the babies eye’s .

That’s a separate issue.

It’s not… the reason why we’re having massive cutbacks is exactly because of our debt. The bank bail out cost to the UK, is not even figured in the UK budget deficit figures at all , neither is the country PFI debts (which comes to billions for the NHS alone )

[quote]
You need to separate being competitive from doing it without concern for others[/quote]

And you need to wake up to how Japan has outsourced just as much as the West.

But the point is they were keeping up with the free market’s momentum with public sector

Labour spent more than the country could afford and left the country in debt up it’s eyeballs, just like Labour did in the 70’s .

created instead of us being forced to always adapt to someone else’s hell

As long as there’s religion that’s going to be hard and pipe dream , and even in out great world, its who you know, rather that what you know

[Geoffrey]

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]It’s not… the reason why we’re having massive cutbacks is exactly because of our debt. The bank bail out cost to the UK, is not even figured in the UK budget deficit figures at all , neither is the country PFI debts (which comes to billions for the NHS alone )

And you need to wake up to how Japan has outsourced just as much as the West.
Labour spent more than the country could afford and left the country in debt up it’s eyeballs, just like Labour did in the 70’s .

As long as there’s religion that’s going to be hard and pipe dream , and even in out great world, its who you know, rather that what you know[/quote]

That doesn’t mean it can’t be changed.

Yes, they ran up debts, and yes the free market crashed the economy, and yes, the banks should not have been bailed out especially if they were gambling. And yes the good times let them borrow.

The point is, this is what an unregulated free market does. It crashes, then is reborn from its ashes into whatever works.

So again, even if governments benefited, which they did, unless they forced the banks into doing what they did, it’s still irrelevant.

All this achieves is a demand for more government control.

Outsourcing is about being competitive, and like I keep saying, it’s wrong, but they are just doing whatever it takes to max profits. As long as corporate greed benefits, why would the nature of that beast change? It won’t, but that can be a force for great prosperity too.

But at the same time you don’t want to help change the havens for this outsourcing because you won’t give up the western way of life, even though lack of investment in ourselves will kill ourselves eventually.

Something has to change. And soon.

[Ancient_Weapon]

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]

Cloning of what? Medical cloning of tissues/organs could provide much-needed solutions to many huge health problems.

Cloning the Top breed of animals for the Food chain mainly[/quote]

Well, since I wholly oppose the enslavement and murder of other animals for our selfish gratification, it doesn?t much bother me whether anyone else is eating animals who happen to be genetically identical to or otherwise artificially derived from each other. I suppose there are potential health and safety issues to be taken into account, but?whatever.

This issue about Organs could be eased in a BIG way overnight : As so as you die your Organs become the property of the NHS/Government instead of being food for the dire or the worms , its can be as simple as that

Hoo! This will end well: the state having a default right to one?s body after their death. Much more sensible is changing organ donation from its current opt-in system to one where consent is assumed unless the individual actively opts out; however, even that comes with some issues, mainly because I anticipate complaints from families of those who weren?t aware of this hypothetical procedure (whether through their own lack of awareness or a lack of education from the authorities).

[Team_Andromeda]

This will end well: the state having a default right to one?s body after their death

‘Organs’ mate or the body for the soul. And the state already have a take on one’s money or assets when dead anyway

Much more sensible is changing organ donation from its current opt-in system to one where consent is assumed unless the individual actively opts ou

pointless paper work and too much fuss . Just allow the NHS/State to have your Organs and a whole host of problems are solved. They’re no good to person or the family that is dead

I anticipate complaints from families of those who weren?t aware of this hypothetical procedure

I can understand that ,but what could are the organs to the dead persons family anyway ?. If you believe in GOD or whatever, then it’s the person soul that goes to Heaven not the Organs - All they will be food for worms or fuel for the fire .

Well, since I wholly oppose the enslavement and murder of other animals for our selfish gratification

But will have no trouble with mice being grown for people ear’s (I’m sure we’ve all seen the pic )or Pigs being growing for people actual Heart replacements (yes I know the NHS already uses veins). Which is all planned or indeed already being conduced by those wonderful Gene experts

Just has long as it’s not for Food ?

[Ancient_Weapon]

One doesn?t have to be religious to possibly want oneself or relatives to be physically intact after death. I actually think everyone should volunteer to donate their organs, but I?m not about to support the state forcing them. Whether the state is entitled to one?s possessions is another issue entirely, but it?s a world away from taking the person?s organs!

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]

Well, since I wholly oppose the enslavement and murder of other animals for our selfish gratification

But will have no trouble with mice being grown for people ear’s (I’m sure we’ve all seen the pic )or Pigs being growing for people actual Heart replacements (yes I know the NHS already uses veins). Which is all planned or indeed already being conduced by those wonderful Gene experts?Just has long as it’s not for Food ?[/quote]

Did I say that? There are manifold ethical issues with using animals in any kind of medical research. Chances are, though, assuming it?s for a legitimate purpose (i.e. not cosmetics or anything stupid like that), it?s at least slightly more justifiable than using them for food (at least when we are privileged enough to have another way, and no one can justify factory farming et al.). Don?t expect a black or white answer from me, though, as I haven?t given this much consideration. And you really distrust scientists, don?t you?

[Team_Andromeda]

Whether the state is entitled to one?s possessions is another issue entirely, but it?s a world away from taking the person?s organs!

I see it has just the same and everyone that dies will tend have a postmortem; Just take the organs out , clean the body up and everyone is happy and a huge problem is solved

Did I say that? There are manifold ethical issues with using animals in any kind of medical research

Well Organs are living things and they’ll need a supply of blood and Co2 and so animals will need to become in and grow the Organs for us . I think it’s quite sick myself and too much playing GOD

it?s at least slightly more justifiable than using them for food

We don’t just use animals for Food, but also our clothing or in our Makeup . I’m sure somewhere we’ve all got a bit of leather. But you right Factory farming isn’t right at all

And you really distrust scientists, don?t you?

No I don’t . There’s area’s that lines shouldn’t be crossed and messing around with DNA or cloning are some of them.
There’s quite a lot of science that I agree , many don’t trust Nuclear I have no problems what so ever with it (when it used for electric) or the NHS being allowed to have people’s Organs when you die

[Solo_Wing]

Finally grabbed a chance to catch up on this thread again. I agree with Ancient Weapon’s responses, so I won’t repeat the points that he has addressed here. But I will reemphasise the point about most of these issues not being black and white. We shouldn’t be too quick to draw lines, especially when there are so many advantages that come from advancing science. They are complex issues that have been thought about and debated in depth by scientists and bioethicists. Although we shouldn’t appeal to authority, peer reviewed evidence and reasoning are much more likely to be closer to the truth on these issues than what every day folk are saying on the Internet. Objections to change of this sort really need to be objections to the science.

Putting in vitro meat on the market, for example, could be a positive thing for the well being of animals. Since it is not grown inside an animal with a brain, no animal can suffer during it’s creation. Every argument that I’ve heard against in vitro meat has come down to either yuck factors, or because it’s considered unnatural - defences of the status quo. These arguments are fallacious in that they have no bearing on the consequences.

By the way, I agree you Team Andromeda, on the organs issue, at least with respect to it being better to take organs from dead humans rather than growing them inside pigs. It is no a straight forward issue though, because in certain belief systems the corpse is considered sacred. In a multicultural society, those views need to at least be taken into consideration (freedom of religion, etc). I do think that the scientific view should be the default position though, unless the person requests otherwise before they die. In other words, a hard opt out approach.

As for governments creating new money to invest in renewable energy, I don’t believe that there any evidence that it is that simple. It’s all speculation to suggest that individual governments can when they’re part of an interlinked global economy.

[Team_Andromeda]

It is no a straight forward issue though, because in certain belief systems the corpse is considered sacred

I agree . I think the basic problem when it comes to Climate change or indeed food supply is that there are simply too many people living on Earth and we’re doing nothing to stop the population increase and that’s the biggest danger the worlds face imo (I could well be wrong)

One area I would be in favour though in terms of GM debate is if they could come up a with crop that wouldn’t allow farmers to grow opium poppy, but only say a food planet instead ( sorry to be so basic & general here) So we could spray all those fields in the likes of Afghanistan and rid us of the like of Heroin with out the needs for war or killing people , while still allowing the farmers to grow food for the people

As for governments creating new money to invest in renewable energy,

I want to make it clear I’m not against renewable energy too , I just dead against Windfarms that’s all . Solar makes perfect sense in some countries and tidal makes perfect sense in ours - Why we haven’t built the severn barrage is really beyond me

[Solo_Wing]

I think the basic problem when it comes to Climate change or indeed food supply is that there are simply too many people living on Earth and we’re doing nothing to stop the population increase and that’s the biggest danger the worlds face imo (I could well be wrong)

I agree, overpopulation is a huge problem, but it’s taboo to bring up any strategies for controlling the population without people yelling “infanticide!” as if draconian measures were the only solution. Generally, more people is considered a good thing. A carry over from times in the past when having a lot of children would have been beneficial. Somehow that attitude needs to change so that people will value having smaller families. I’m not sure what the best solution is to the problem, but education and financial security have a part to play in it. The population in Western countries is a lot more stable than in countries without these opportunities. No accident.

I want to make it clear I’m not against renewable energy too , I just dead against Windfarms that’s all . Solar makes perfect sense in some countries and tidal makes perfect sense in ours - Why we haven’t built the severn barrage is really beyond me

It comes down to what the market wants. The government can interfere, but then people complain about too much socialism. I think we need to be open to these changes when it makes sense, and not get too court up in the ideologies.